Undernet Drones

You can post in here ideas and comments on how you think we could improve things on undernet.
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Re: Undernet Drones

Post by Spidel »

this subject bounces from a subject to another. I simply couldn't abstain not to say something. I would've said more, but what for? :baaa:
"A wise man writes down what he thinks, a stupid man forgets what he thinks, a complete idiot punishes himself for what he thinks."

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Post by SplitFire »

xpl0ziv wrote:I dont agreed with anyone of you folks , not with xplora not with `Dan or anyone als that posted something on this topic and i franctly dont understand why do you bother sow much to change something that wont be changed .
I belive that the real reason why channels like cc-power are not closed is because its alot more easy to supervise the tief then to hunt it and i think now you will see why #cc-power is not closed or any other channel like it . Sow stop blaiming the admins/ircops/helpers for not doing what they are here to do and try to think before you say/do something.

Regards xpl0ziv ( Liviu )

If it was so, channels like #CC-Power would have been closed ages ago, not coz we (users) demanded so, but coz it's ops/users "would have been" jailed already. Enough time has already passed to detect/stalk/hunt down all of them, it's not that hard to trace IPs and/or vhosts and know the datacentres running them, and from there to the abusers, it's what i've been told by DALnet's opers & this is how they do it. Yes it might take time, but it's never impossible
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Post by xplora »

SeeknDestroy wrote:I'm pretty sure I already posted this, but what the heck, let's do it again.

E-Mail servers DO filter out viruses and spam to protect their users. If they didn't, your inbox would be 99% spam. E-mail may not monitor illegal trading of CC lists, but they definitely filter out "known" viruses and spams, just as this IRC network should.

The virus/spam filters that mail servers use work more like filtering the message for certain words, on STORED messages, yet another bad example.

SeeknDestroy wrote:Forums and Message Boards... when administrators receive complaints of abuse and illegal activity, they act upon them, removing and blocking threads, and taking necessary actions based on the type of activity.

Forums and message boards are stored content, irc doesn't store anything, again another bad example.

Both those example work on files or records on a server, that is stored content, irc messages are not stored content, and unlike your examples, a single message is not large enough to carry a virus, so in the end there is nothing to filter, since virus's do not actually spread over irc, they at most only find hosts to infect that way, and for dealing with that Undernet provides usernames and the usermode +x feature to stop said virus's from finding hosts to infect.

SeeknDestroy wrote:Stop acting like no other place on the planet filters out drones, spam, and illegal activity. It takes place on almost every communication form on the internet in some way or another. You don't exactly see advertisements on TV for cashing out your list of stolen CC numbers either do ya? Oh yeah, I guess they monitor and control that too, don't they, to some extent? Same with the radio... that's all your excuses right out the door.

When it comes to IRC, I offer DalNet (altho you may not like the network, respect it for what it is and what they did) as a prime example. They used to be just like Undernet, overrun with abusers and illegal activity. One day they decided enough is enough, and created the tools necessary to clean the network. When they did actually clean it, all those groups they harbored DDOS'd the hell out of them for doing so... but to this day, they're still in the top10 list, and they're still there.

They also make no attempt to be unmoderated, they are a moderated IRC network, that does have the resources to do it.

SeeknDestroy wrote:Undernet gives up before it even tries. Makes excuses for things they simply don't want to try. Excuses, excuses, excuses (I said that before too).

Undernet chooses to be an unmoderated network, as a result the same tricks Dalnet uses, Undernet can't use so easily.
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Post by SplitFire »

xplora wrote:Undernet chooses to be an unmoderated network...

Good reason for everyone who's reading/will read this thread to stop giving a damn about Undernet anymore, starting with myself. Have fun with your (30% drones, 30% hackers, 30% CC abusers,10% users) network
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Post by Mitko »

SplitFire wrote:Have fun with your (30% drones, 30% hackers, 30% CC abusers,10% users) network

Don't abuse the word hacker. Those are script kiddies, not hackers.
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Post by Xaifas »

good point mitko.

To much drama lol and i added to many cool features to my drone killah to wipe em now :( hehehe j/k ... no really ...

This topic is keeping my forum monitoring script alive hehehe and its the only thing that generates traffic i bet ... such a dead forum for such a big network .. i wonder why >G<

I think undernet needs a harsh lessons in order to take the right steps and do what most of us would do... :sneaky:

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Post by CrazyEgg »

well hello and here.

After +D we all observe that floods are less more than 80%.
that meaning: we can protect our channels and give to the abusers to understand that any abuse like flood are no sense now.

I make a post for improvment of +D mode.
If someone read that post, he understand that is posible to "discharge" all the dromes and spams.

the conception is simple: they must not see the drone the list on join.simple.the drone must see only ops and voices users.
The op decide how will act.
so i think that is the solution for drones and not only.
I believe that will be disappeared after 3-4 months of the new posibilities of +D

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Post by Mitko »

CrazyEgg the discussion was about removing them from Undernet, not from some channel.
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Post by SeeknDestroy »

CrazyEgg... yes... +D CAN eliminate virtually ALL spam and floods on a single channel. I wrote the most complex, 1000+ line +D script you could ever imagine... http://sanitarium.mircscripting.info/abuseproof.html is the psuedocode for it, and it uses many of the suggestions I made for the network to use in spam/flood detection. And guess what, it works... amazingly.

Now the problem with that... is not only how complex it was for me to code... but how complex it is for a regular user to understand concepts like "regex"/regular expressions in order to maintain it. They're the heart and soul of the code, the most powerful way to match abusive clients/drones.

Most people can't handle using the modes available to them effectively, let alone add in the complexity of +D and /who scanning via scripts.

Let's summarize this :

If YOU can make spam and floods a thing of the past with +D, then the NETWORK can do the same thing at the server-level, removing the need for every one of tens of thousands of channels to go through the trouble.

Scroll back in this thread... numerous examples have been provided of how the most common spambots can be matched with regular expressions, accurately and effectively. The network does not have the ability to effectively, and accurately, implement regular expressions in a connect-scan.

ADAPTIVE regex can be used to match 99% of all floodbot nets connecting to the network. They *almost* all make some sort of pattern-matchable mistake, and a smart system can adapt to any pattern they use. Everyone's so used to matching ppl via IP address, the almighty IP address... omg... fact is... an IP address is the WEAKEST way you can match an abuser. Randomness, when matched with regex, is one of the strongest patterns you can make. The problem there is... the network can't even get a basic single-match regular expression working, let alone a 20x more complex adaptive regex system... it's way over their head... and rather than admit they need help, or try to do it themselves (learn something new)... they'd rather make excuses all decade long.

Again, if YOU can stop it at the channel-level, the network can do the same darn thing at the server level. Plain and simple.