Where Undernet is heading?

[SIRavecavecCZ]

Hello, again.

I just want to ask you, will all this POWER abuse and all this things ever gonna stop? Yes you may make fun of me. BUT where are the opers when you need them? And another strange fact, are the emails that users are use to send to CSERVICE does not mather it is user names related or any of this. But for example, i speak with 2 cservice admins and no one could help one normal user. WHY? Because first they do not care about helping, they do what they do, just to maintain their positions and that is all. I know NOT all of them are same. But many. Another reason why that guy has ONLY 1 user name and now he cant log in, he got suspended and the reply from Cservice was multiple user names. MAN come on... THIS is very sadly for me, because i care, i was also in hello, when they SUSPENDED MY channel without reason, but after 1 week X came back. WHY? You know why? Because i did all this in here public. And some people DO know me. I am not flooder/abuser as other call me. I am the one who will always tell the truth, because i was once in this network and i did not see so much power abuse, now you may wonder why people like Red_Ice, NudeDude/RetiredGod are not anymore in CSERVICE... I also wonder why... Because they did something. And when you do to much, things may go away... Undernet started with some good points of view, where are they now? WHY undernet has 100000~ users and they are @ 1,7 billion user names. The answer is simple. Those who should clean them, clean the innocents, and like once XPLORA say, "WE PROTECT THE INOCENTS" yes i see the way you are doing it. We are all human, i think so. At least DO not CLOSE the one who did nothing. And when you DO it. SHOW him SOME PROUVES whit the reason he got closed. I will SHOW you here THE email from abuse@undernet.org, and when i reported a user with many user names. The answer was simple... THAT is not good for us. No good LOGS. I did that because i just find that guy doing bad things by mistake, so i say let`s do something good. But HOW can you do something, when for example i was speaking with one ircop/cs admin one time, i reported some things to him. BUT he say, we trust only Officials... IF you TRUST only officials. THAN why are we here? Good people left Cservice along time. New people, just maintain some rules, but they never apply them. As for a BAN, suspend its easy for them, and for friends, to do it as a favour. But for those in need, there is a BIG problem, first you have to think NOT all users, can understand sometime the procedure, and even if they do. They will not get a straight and augmented reason. I will show you logs, they are on my work email, and now i have a day of... You may hate me more, but i remain the same.

When you do something, do it as you will do it for you!

[xplo]

I will SHOW you here THE email from abuse@undernet.org, and when i reported a user with many user names. The answer was simple... THAT is not good for us. No good LOGS. I did that because i just find that guy doing bad things by mistake, so i say let`s do something good.

Reports of usernames abuse are not taken from the public. There is a team on these sort of problems.

now you may wonder why people like Red_Ice, NudeDude/RetiredGod are not anymore in CSERVICE...

The reasons why they left is none of our businesses. and i am pretty sure it was voluntary. and if not, well its none of our business.

Regards, xplo.

[SIRavecavecCZ]

Xplo... If you are In or Out. Do not try to be like the rest. Why you tell me those things? You think i do not know them? Open your eyes. Undernet is going down.

[Spidel]

Hello, again.

I just want to ask you, will all this POWER abuse and all this things ever gonna stop? Yes you may make fun of me. BUT where are the opers when you need them?

Maybe "the opers" you know are doing laundry, taking care of the kids.. heck maybe they even smoke blunt in their backyard and have fun but then again they are still human, but on irc terms this is what an oper can do; The primary function of an IRCop is to see that their server, and the network as a whole, are running smoothly. That includes removing clones drones you name it.. and disconnecting and reconnecting servers to fix significant lag or netsplits. An IRCop may also choose to spend some of their time helping users (though this is not mandatory).

Power abuse? please define it in the way you know it. Power abuse is when you abuse your power on innocent users when they did nothing wrong towards the network.

And another strange fact, are the emails that users are use to send to CSERVICE does not mather it is user names related or any of this. But for example, i speak with 2 cservice admins and no one could help one normal user. WHY? Because first they do not care about helping, they do what they do, just to maintain their positions and that is all.

I disagree with you because that depends on the problem you had. Some answers are not always the one you expect them to be. E.g It's like when you go to a job interview, nobody can guarantee you that you got the job.

I know NOT all of them are same. But many. Another reason why that guy has ONLY 1 user name and now he cant log in, he got suspended and the reply from Cservice was multiple user names.

He should mail at usernames@undernet.org and ask for evidence. I won't say the toasting system is perfect but there could be some glitches that could lead to suspension but that has to be double checked manually by usernames@ team.

And some people DO know me. I am not flooder/abuser as other call me.

I've learnt way back that nobody cares who you are so i can assure you that nobody cares, so that's what makes you perfect because you're nobody.

I am the one who will always tell the truth, because i was once in this network and i did not see so much power abuse, now you may wonder why people like Red_Ice, NudeDude/RetiredGod are not anymore in CSERVICE...

Flash news : ReD_IcE is still in the org, indeed he's not back as a network official but he's still in the org as about the other dude he had been a former CSC administrator but that was a long time ago.

WHY undernet has 100000~ users and they are @ 1,7 billion user names. The answer is simple. Those who should clean them, clean the innocents, and like once XPLORA say, "WE PROTECT THE INOCENTS" yes i see the way you are doing it. We are all human, i think so.

1,7 billion? Well on this one you've gotta be kidding me. Maybe 1,7 million and 35% are suspended and another 15% are either multiples or awaiting to be deleted from X's data base and another 20% of the amount of registered users already expired database as for the rest of 30% are registered users using a single username.

To clean what??

At least DO not CLOSE the one who did nothing. And when you DO it. SHOW him SOME PROUVES whit the reason he got closed. I will SHOW you here THE email from abuse@undernet.org, and when i reported a user with many user names.

Read above, abuse@undernet.org has nothing to do with username issues or username abuse.


As for the rest of your other comments i did not understand, wish i had.

P.S: I've heard about undernet going down for many years and yet this is just a fiction but when eventually will go 'down' you'll surely notice you can no longer connect to any of undernet's servers.

[SIRavecavecCZ]

Spidel, one thing, you did not read as you should. He emailed usernames@undernet.org. And they say he has multiple usernames, it is not true. Where are the PROUVES? I mean you do s**t on him, and he has the right to know why. I will not be so smart ass as you are. But do not forget. Who you are, where you had left, and still, you keep tracking some points. You are here and there on network, for power. Now enjoy my nobody *style. Il remain with the stupid guys, i like it. Make place for those smart asses like you, who spend 1 hr to make that reply. Check if you spell it right, and post it. By the way how is your syster?

[Spidel]

Spidel, one thing, you did not read as you should. He emailed usernames@undernet.org. And they say he has multiple usernames, it is not true.

Well i have read but you did not mention anything about him MAILING there, I could have think of at cservice@ as you said he mailed Cservice. Cservice has multiple public mailing-list which is usernames@ cservice@ cservice-abuse@ and X@

Where are the PROUVES? I mean you do s**t on him, and he has the right to know why.

Proofs should have been revealed to him through email, in my oppinion.

I will not be so smart ass as you are. But do not forget. Who you are, where you had left, and still, you keep tracking some points.

I'm not a smart ass but i can be if you want too.

You are here and there on network, for power.

Technically if you put it in this way then yes i am but only if it's in the good use for the network (we all are by the way, aren't we?) power or you name it, it's a priviledge that can and may be revoked if you FAIL but unlike undernet everything's possible.

[xplora]

IRC op's annoyingly are not here to help the users, it is not part of their "job" description, they are here to keep the servers up and connected.

CService provides a means of registering Channels, and supports those channels with X the service bot. CService and Undernet initially created usernames to help with channel registration and to get away from having to log into every channel, therefore CService has the dubious task of managing usernames on Undernet. Undernet has since found additional uses for usernames, these include host hiding (/mode yournick +x and login to X causes your host to change to yourusername.users.undernet.org), ChanFix (C, the server that monitors unregistered channels and try to re-op opless channels so IRC op's do not have to).

As a result CService has setup an external entity of #usernames & usernames@undernet.org to provide basic username support, and abuse@undernet.org with CService's help has setup usernames-abuse@undernet.org for deal with username abuse as found by network officials, #usernames is the best place to go first to identify the kind of reason a username might be suspended, now for your privacy (and their safety) they wont tell you why, but they can tell you where to email to ask why, which can give a rough idea as to why a username might be suspended. The places #usernames can direct people to regarding a username suspension include cservice-abuse@undernet.org (usually a channel manager or former channel manager suspended due to some channel based abuse), usernames-abuse@undernet.org (as mentioned for abuses reported by network officials, this means IRC op's), X@undernet.org (for when a username is suspended due to a self-suspended, usually because the username has been compromised), And lastly usernames@undernet.org (mostly for automated suspends, but also for everything else that does not get handled by the other mail lists).

As for asking for proof, we can not provide that most of the time, as doing so would compromise the security of the helper providing the response, as well as the systems being used, we are not the police, so please do not expect us to behave like them, we will follow our guidelines as best we can, while attempting to protect everyone involved. CService has at it's heart a huge database of email addresses that any spammer would love to get their hands on, as a result, CService policy is the right to privacy, and 2 date, the only compromise has been once when an official got hacked and the hacker only collected staff information, once out of almost 15 years is a pretty good record.




As for not getting help from people when you go to them directly, while I can't talk for those outside of CService, CService Staff are encouraged not to provide help in private, mostly because it can cause (and has caused) mis-communication between staff members, also CService Staff are volunteers, people just like you, who originally came to irc to chat and have fun, whom then decided to help out, I do not see any reason why they should have to extend that help in their private windows/channels when there are perfectly good designated help channels and mail lists set up for the purpose, we are not paid to provide such a service, so expecting us to respond to private messages, or questions in our chat channels is more likely to get a user kicked/banned/ignored and rightly so. Places to start to at least try to find the right place to ask include: #help, #userguide, #beginner, #CService, #usernames, #nastrand, #zt, #arlington, #operhelp, #report-abuse.

As for "POWER abuse" that is always going to be subjective, what may look like "POWER abuse", can easily be the exactly opposite, too often what is believed to be "POWER abuse" is really someone being fairly rewarded, remember, EVERYTHING about Undernet is volunteered, right down the tiniest bit of code, no one is paid to be here, the ISP's providing Server's are as much volunteers here as anyone/thing is, so the only avenue left to reward people for their time/effort in helping Undernet is to support them in other ways. If you prefer to think of this as "POWER abuse" then our opinions have crossed and we are at an impasse. IF however you have a record of some true "POWER abuse" then please email it to cservice-abuse@undernet.org (CService staff), or abuse@undernet.org (IRC op's) so the issue(s) may be investigated and handled.

Yes, on Undernet the Innocent come first, Undernet is also an unmoderated medium, this means that channels are created every second that Undernet knows nothing about, and doesn't go looking for, that may be abusive (ie full of things like drones), when one is come across, care is take to properly deal with it, so as to not affect too many innocent people, remember most drones these days are computers hacked by a virus/trojan that opened the computer up to their creators, so it's easy for an oper to come accross a bunch of drones, and one of those drones could be your neighbours computer, and because they use the same ISP (Internet Service Provider) as you, could actually appear on the internet in much the same way (looking like right next to each other), would you prefer the IRC op g-line just the neighbours hacked computer, or your entire ISP ?

"Innocent come first" and "unmoderated" thankfully do not apply to Undernet's extended services (CService/X, Chanfix, usernames) as a result Undernet/CService have the right to refuse those extra services, on any basis they please. At this time, this is mostly the CService Guidelines and Undenet's AUP.


Wow, that got bigger than I expected, on a personal note, I for one will not waste time reading bad language (I mean swearwords, personal attacks,generally being rude), if anyone wants me to help them, leave the "potty" mouth and the anger elsewhere, because they are the fastest ways to get on my ignore list, I would expect this will be the same for most helpers on Undernet, remember we are all volunteers.

[SIRavecavecCZ]

He did email usernames@undernet.org, and he did go back in #usernames, BUT no one from there tell him about that email address. [The answer from #usernames was, WAIT 60 days, and MAKE your username AGAIN. So i tell you, this is the way you .... innocents, and they might be very damaged because maybe they are not there just to watch you showing .... in front of all] WHY? Ah i know why, because there is always a WAY in for YOU {CSERVICE} to get a way out from this ... xplora i think you do remember me. From the issue i had with X, while i got it removed without reason. THAT what i call abuse. Did you do something? OR for you, since i am the innocent, i had to be .... YEAH you know that word... Dude... At least imagine, that people DO not post in this forum, and those who are doing it, there may be 2 reasons, one be like "I care" and second be like "I am smart." sometime even I can`t understand me. But YOU {CSERVICE}, DID nothing about ABUSE, specially when its from YOU {CSERVICE}. What is the best way to stop that POWER abuse? To BECOME all F * * * Z ? To start FLOODING THE SERVERS LIKE OTHER DO? THIS will solve you? READ this FORUM. AND do what people try to tell you, OR close it. I mean, close the network, IF you cannot HANDLE it. YEAH it may be unmoderated, that does not make YOU{Cservice/OPERS} THE best ever! And I just DO not want to get more into it... Just read posts from here. You people are those who say, ITS example... {We can`t face #WhiteHat, THEY will flood the servers.} YEAH great, SO LET`S LEAVE #WHITEHAT MAKE all of them 5 / 6 usernames, and lets F K THE innocents, so we may have activity. This is WHAT is GOING ON. Since 2 3 years. And one more thing. I think that UNDERNET it is VERY moderated, the problem is THAT you do not want it to be MODERATED. YOU just DO not care about it! And about volunteers. Next time try NOT to think, that what is OLD is good. It is just a small point. Ah, in undernet IF you DO as they want you "LICK A**" YOU may GET very very HIGH. POWER... But, i will not do that. I tried many times, to be useful. BUT when it comes to do something, its all not based on friendship, ah he will learn, bla bla... So that how all WANNA BE GOT the chance to suppress the innocents.


Just wake up people, those who should say something... Do not hide, your afraid? OF what? I am sure i am not the only one who see all this. But one of those who say it. YEAH enjoy! Best regards and best wishes!

[SIRavecavecCZ]

And one more think, i forget to mention, with all this #usernames #class #cservice you just make them more and more wannabe, the wish is strong it`s going from inside, i know a few people who got very BIG support, from YOU{CSERVICE} and they .... BUT YOU "care" ? Yes i bet you do. It is volunteer... Yes yes. Again 10 emails, follow procedure, bla bla, that guy will be screwed untill he will get his problems solved, with YOUR procedures. So what is left? Ahh he may get the chance to find someone to teach him to scan and flood, and after you did s**t on him. He will do same on you. Yes you know, is always like you hit me, il hit you. Does not apply to all, but to many. So if you Do not want it MODERATED... Than i think you should not do that. And one more think, Undernet started with something... And ended with nothing. or Carders/Drones/Scanners/ this MAY make undernet famous on news online. Maybe this is what you want. You do not see something GOOD, and something to make people enjoy it. Just... . See ya.


P.S. i am not so good in english...[Like those perfects volunteers ]

[Spidel]

To tell you the truth this is pointless.

[SIRavecavecCZ]

It is, because they do not care. They like this weel... They screw innocents, because they will not stryke back, so they may have activity, and they do not screw the ones like in #whitehat #xxxpasswordz #xxxpasswords, and so on... The list can be HUGE! WHY? Because it is unmoderated. If it is unmoderated, leave the drones do hello, and leave them spread hacked roots!

[xplora]

Now you are starting to get into legal issues, in the case of drones the legal issue is the ability to get the drones cleaned, most countries with laws regarding permission to access a computer system (as in illegal to hack a computer) do not provide exceptions for attempts to clean up a computer (ie remote removal of virus). As for channels like that, obstruction is the legal issue in question. I could say more, but I'm sure you have read my other posts on this subject so there is no need to repeat it here.

[Mitko]

If all computer users were smart, there wouldn't be this kind of discussion because there wouldn't be any hacked machines, drones, stolen credit cards, ... So suggest your government to implement new subject in schools where they will educate the people not to accept files from unknown people, to install antivirus software, firewalls, anti-spyware software, not to click unknown urls, install operating system updates, and whatever else is needed so maybe then the internet as a whole will be as clean as possible. For now, when most of the people have IQ 74 the internet is full of hacked machines, stolen credit cards, fraud orders, email spam, irc retards, and so on, the list is big. Even a 7 years old can find out how to exploit a machine and run drones on IRC because it's very simple and IT IS simple just because of the computer users (owners). So come on, try to change the internet as a whole since you say that Undernet is against you.

And something else SIRavecavecCZ, have you ever thought that 99.9% of the people around you don't even know what IRC is and/or they don't care ? So why would someone care if (s)he is an official or not. What if you run a server on Undernet ? You would be proud of yourself because normal users on IRC will obey you ? But when you tell your friends who doesn't ever heard of IRC that you own a server they will tell you to change the discussion because you are boring. Come on, live the life and accept the system as it is or do the ABOVE I told you. Thank you.

Best regards!

[SIRavecavecCZ]

Mitko, xplora, i was pointing TO ABUSE in CSERVICE. THAT is prior to me, and users, they are abused, if they email, they may just be suspended, and you know there is this POWER... If you DO something, You will get flooded, Glined, because MANY MANY of Cservice volunteers have also those "hackers" as friends, they help them, BUT no one care about a normal user. By the fact that he join in cservice ask for a command, and someone will notice him or tell him that, its nothing. Any old undernet user can do. Same as you say that even 7 years can put drones, also a user old in undernet will know X commands, what to say THAT your CService volunteers does not know what /msg x access #channel -min 450 -max 460 "Example." SO... But they have the POWER to do hello on that guy, who may be a newbie. xplora, let me ask you... Why you say many things, but none are true? They might apply for YOU. But not for the rest. Yes, i know you are to busy, to listen the problems, and ANY ADMIN will trust ONLY admin/opers. Well trust what you want. Cause undernet is going down under your eyes. Most of the people are from RO, and this current, started somewhere in 2004~2005 when they started to hunt help channels:), not all, there are a few people who deserve my respect. But... Before i had my small break on irc, when i came back, they were already TOP 10 , and so and so, they start to increase the family, And once he is in. Is hard to kick him. Why? Because you chose them... Yes its hard...


I AM NOT NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER!

[SIRavecavecCZ]

Mitko, not all people have your Certifications... . [Even if !]