Undernet and piracy

Here is where you can post your comments about the network, give ideas for changes and what live-events you would like to see.
puterfixer
Posts: 212

Undernet and piracy

Post by puterfixer »

I've had it. During the past months, more and more people keep coming in help channels asking how or where to download music, movies, software or books. It becomes interesting when they are told that these actions are illegal and IRC is a place for chatting, not downloading warez. Their replies vary from denial ("no, it's not illegal in <name a country here>") to surprise ("oh... but my friend told me that Undernet is free sharing server"). And those are quotes from people I've seen in the past three days. I have conducted a little investigation on my own. Here are the results.

At the moment when I downloaded a list of channels from the servers, there were 34264 public channels listed and about 10000 secret ones. Of the 34264 channels, relevant channels were 7689 which had 10 or more people, and big channels were 804 which had 50 or more people. I manually went through those top 804 channels and marked them based on channel name and topic. Out of them, 95 are related to audio (mp3, audiobooks) or video (divx, dvd) piracy, and 73 are related to other kinds of warez (software, games, ISOs, books, passwords, cracks, serials). That's 20%; one channel in five is doing something illegal. This is just the tip of the iceberg, because I only looked through the top 10% of relevant channels, and there are many more channels in the remaining 90%! Also, there are 54 channels on Undernet ranging from 250 and 1314 users; out of them, 25 channels are related to something illegal. That's almost half!

The conclusion so far is outrageous. Undernet has the reputation of a warez heaven, unrestricted, unmoderated and without the risk of getting caught by law enforcement agencies. People who illegally share copyrighted materials can hide their tracks with the +x mode.

The obvious question is: Why Undernet officials do not take any decisive measure against these illegalities? Why do we have to put up with the filth of file sharing across this network? IRC Ops probably thought that posting the words "no illegal content" in the servers' MOTDs will solve the problem; well, it didn't. The cases in which mp3 channels were closed down are so rare, that they feel like exceptions to the rule. No active and continuous actions taken by Undernet representatives are interpreted by people whose business on Undernet is to break the law as unspoken permission or even encouragement to continue the file sharing activities. Is it that hard to run a /list once a week and at least find out the channels whose name contain the words mp3, warez, xdcc, divx, dvd, xxx, bookz, gamez and other similar keywords, then block them out? Some IRC networks implemented channel name filters - you simply cannot create a channel whose name contains one of those forbidden words.

The proportions of illegal file trading on this IRC network have gone out of anyone's imagination. Undernet representatives need to get involved NOW and start a campaign to elliminate as much as possible all illegal sharing conducted here. I do not want to be associated with warez punks when I say that I've spent more than 6 years of my life on Undernet. I do not want to see Undernet vanish from the face of the Earth when the current situation goes public and authorities label it "the new KaZaA" then shut it down. I do not want to have to fight every day against the rumours that Undernet exists for file sharing, but to chat and have fun in an environment clean of anything illegal.

This discussion needs to be public because any person connecting to Undernet should be concerned with the continuously growing dark side of this network. I am expecting an official answer to be posted here in a reasonable amount of time, new policies to be established in a timely manner and to be enforced as soon as possible. I appreciate any comments regarding this issue as well as the support from members of all help channels on Undernet. Please make this subject known to all people who may have something interesting to say about it. Please promote this discussion so people dealing with warez are aware that their end on Undernet is near. Thank you.

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Homer
Posts: 212
Location: Springfield, IL

Post by Homer »

I just hate reading long posts, since the time I joined this forum i never did, this is the first time I read a post like this. I found it a very Interested idea about warez problems on the Undernet IRC Network. I really hate when someone come in a help channel and say "hey, i lost op in #blablawarez, i know that the channel name is lame but it isn`t a warez channel" you`ll go in and find everything fine, no warez activity etc.. and as you don`t know its a *warez* channel you`ll re-op back the channel (hope noone very did :D) and when you part a hundred of warez bots join the channel.

I liked the idea that puterfixer said, about that service that block such warez channel names.

Let`s have Undernet run in a LEGAL way and not in a ILLEGAL way. There should be something done about this.

Nice post speedy.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you!

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ZeroSlashe®
Posts: 238
Location: Netherlands

Post by ZeroSlashe® »

I think it's a nice and interesting idea, but i do have one question...
Maybe it would sound stupid or just odd/weird, but if u don't like the question hehe just remove it then ;)

Question: what are you going to do, after the channels are closed, to thousands of users that are going to be hello off and might go to help channels asking for explenation and u (as helper) have to answer it every time over and over again?
[img]http://members.chello.nl/zeroslasher/twat.jpg[/img]

puterfixer
Posts: 212

Post by puterfixer »

Part of the solution is that they are told automatically when they try to join one of those locked channels that file sharing is in most cases illegal and Undernet has decided to put a stop to it; an automatic server notice with the same message could be sent when the user connects, separate from the MOTD (which can be ignored, every IRC client has a setting for it). I'm sure the questions will continue for a while, but file sharing won't, and that's the whole idea.

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YounGun
Posts: 164
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Post by YounGun »

Confused users are not news. We have dealt with 'em and will continue answering their questions, by setting a topic, or, for important events such as this one is (if it will ever be put to practice, not just theory) ircops can use network-wide messages.

That is not the problem.

We first need a reply from someone representing authority on Undernet. The reply is should be very solid , documented (at least as well as puterfixr was *although it isn't his job to keep this network clean *) and, if Undernet Admins along with CSC should find this situation disturbing ( :o ) they should carry out a "continuous" action against these channels; they shouldn't hide behind big promises and even bigger words..

It's futile to disscus anything before we hear some official oppinions.
[img]http://wiki.castlecops.com/images/f/f6/MVPLogo1w.gif[/img]

puterfixer
Posts: 212

Post by puterfixer »

A month has passed and the response from Undernet officials is just overwhelming, as you all can see. :roll: Silence is also a very loud and clear answer. Thank you for your interest in an old Undernetter's opinions and suggestions for putting a stop to illegal activities on this network. Thank you for taking action against transforming a chat network in a warez nest. </sarcasm> I have given up all hope with Undernet officials, perhaps I should look for other people interested in increasing public and authorities' awareness of this problem.

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sirAndrew
Posts: 760
Location: Romania

Post by sirAndrew »

I`m gonna answer you speeds as all helpers or volunteers how someone likes to call them:
CSC official, and admins, are busy busy people, they don`t have time to for this, plus we need to remember that they are all volunteers and have a personal life. Also they provide a free service, no need to complain about this. The lack of interest of UNDERNET officials does not surprise me.
Also this is a forum.....this ideea should be sent in an e-mail to one or all the committees(CSC UUS URC)...Than, they would hava to have a meeting the 3 committees and their heads to solve the problem. Kinda hard to gather over 100 people because this is not the decission of one official. And the 3 committees would have to work toghether....hmm kinda hard work.....[/quote]
sirAndrew @ Undernet.org

8 years on this forum and i'm still the #1 poster around.

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LordMike
Posts: 54
Location: dev/null

Post by LordMike »

Well, what should we do about them? Don't you care a little? They should have their own IRC network!?
Second ... this kind of channels never gets registered with CService (X), so there is nothin' you can be afraid of. If you ever saw a channel with warez or any other illegal activity registered on undernet feel free to mail object@undernet.org or cservice-abuse@undernet.org
Regards,
LordMike
[img]http://www.danasoft.com/sig/NeverM0re.jpg[/img]

puterfixer
Posts: 212

Post by puterfixer »

Ah-HA! Prepare your inboxes, here they come :devil: Looooong list. Should I attach logs as well, or is the channel name and topic sufficient?

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draku
Posts: 36
Location: Piatra Neamt, Romania

Post by draku »

sirAndrew wrote:CSC official, and admins, are busy busy people, they don`t have time ...


Oh, come on, already! Jeez, how busy can a person be? I've really had enough of this, it just sounds dumb. It's only a silly excuse most of the times. Now I'm not saying they're not busy or never busy.
Heh, I'm busy sometimes. Everybody's busy. They must be busy too. But they're always busy and always very very very (etc.) busy...
:evil: draku :evil:

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Razvanet
Posts: 406
Location: Toronto,Canada

Post by Razvanet »

In my opinion they can't really be that busy...i mean i don't want to say they do nothing...but geting real how busy can you get ? if you are over-busy you can't do anything right and at one point you have to stop, i guess that what they really mean is that they are doing something else...and don't realy have the time or want to "irc things".

Regards,
Dream what you want to dream; go where you want to go; be what you want to be because you have only one life and one chance to do all the things you want in life.

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sirAndrew
Posts: 760
Location: Romania

Post by sirAndrew »

I know that, you know that, they know that. All i did was save some time for one of the busy officials! I know that they can`t be too busy to care for their users..... :)
sirAndrew @ Undernet.org

8 years on this forum and i'm still the #1 poster around.

Mentality
Posts: 1

Post by Mentality »

Apologies for the late reply, I was only made aware of it online today and replying was irresistable!

Firstly, I'm completely with puterfixer on this one. I have always wondered what Undernet's actual stance on this issue is - do I tell users "No, you cannot download movies, it is not allowed on Undernet"? If I did say that and it did comply with Undernet's official rules, what am I going to say when they come back with "Well then why are there so many warez channels? Loser!"

One of the things I love about DALnet is their, how should I put it, bravery, in banning all mass file trading. I know a lot of others commend them for this action, whilst I'm sure other condemn. Nevertheless, people who wish to obtain files illegally should be stopped - as we can do little about it in the Internet in general, the best we can do is try stopping it on IRC. I am well aware of why mIRC/Undernet and some other large IRC networks are so popular - because of their file trading reputations. However, personally, I see no point in having a popular chat network if the majority of users don't chat. Many people, including myself, think DALnet has become a better IRC network since it placed that ban. If only EFnet, Undernet, IRCnet and Quakenet would take the same course of action....particularly the first two.

As for this 'busy' rubbish, it's total bunkem. As people have pointed out, people are busy all the time that's no excuse for not reading the forums - include it into their busy schedule, rather than put it at the bottom of their list and say 'Oh well, we were too busy with everything else'. I deal with mirc.net, the mIRC message boards, 6 help channels across 3 networks, a large amount of emails, chatting and real life - I still have managed to write this forum post though, and read all of the above comments.

I'm not expecting anything of Undernet - I can only give my opinion on the issue. I'm not exactly an optimistic person though, I don't see them doing anything about it. It seems popularity and a high rating on netsplit.de is more important regardless of what actually happens ON that chat network.

Regards,
Mentality/Chris

OUTsider
Posts: 435
Location: Netherlands

Post by OUTsider »

you can't stop them. it's always trying to find a cure for a disease. As long as ISP's refuse to coorporate in such matters. Why do people still stick to DCC for warez ? Coz the hosts they spread it from are mostly unaware they are part of the group. Thanks to the perfect security present in the most used operating system.

Just my 2 cents.
Don't bother reading, I'm just the lame botlender, right ?