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angelic1
Posts: 36
Location: Planet Earth, I hope.

Post by angelic1 »

Hello.
Not sure if this is totally correct thread to post this in, however I hope you do read it and take note from it.
It's about the general design of the main website, the Forums (although it'd be nice with a different skin, or ones people can change in their profile) are fine.
The main website, however, should really be re-coded, it should not use a table for layout, tables are incorrect use of markup, and were never meant for layout, only for tabular data. See: http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts

With this design, as it's quite simple, it wouldn't be very hard, I'm able to assist should you need it.

Regards,
Kind Regards,

Angelic1.

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Kahr
Posts: 167
Location: Svelvik, Norway

Post by Kahr »

Whether or not tables were meant to be used for layout is not important. What is important is that it works perfectly fine, and thus it is not needed to change that. There is no point in fixing something that is not broken.
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angelic1
Posts: 36
Location: Planet Earth, I hope.

Post by angelic1 »

That completely depends how you look at it.
Search around google and you'll see millions of pages stating why tables should not be used for design.
I would imagine from your reply that you're not a web developer, otherwise you wouldn't have posted such a post. The benefits of using CSS over table is that it's faster - stylesheets are cached.
Officially, (w3c) the HTML table was concieved as a means to display tabular data. W3C said style sheets, not tables, should be used for layout. Using tables for layout is like wearing dress shoes jogging-both work, but they're the wrong tools for the job.
Screen readers and text browsers struggle to read table-based layouts, in fact, the W3C in its Web Content Accessbility guidelines explicity said "do not use tables for layout" - a tableless-layout designed using CSS can present the most appropriate and usage design for each user agent, be it a cell phone, a screen reader, a TV-based browser or a browser running from a PC.
For both the site developer and the reader, a CSS-based design offers a degree of flexibility nearly impossible in restrictive table-based layouts. Not only can developers quickly and easily redesign an entire site by modifying one file, they can also present alternate designs for the reader. Separating content from the detailed structure table-based layouts provide, has the added benefit of future compatibility and portability.

Point made?
Kind Regards,

Angelic1.

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Kahr
Posts: 167
Location: Svelvik, Norway

Post by Kahr »

But it still works, doesn't it? And especially for people that are not that familiar with CSS. Like, for instance, me.
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angelic1
Posts: 36
Location: Planet Earth, I hope.

Post by angelic1 »

Kahr wrote:But it still works, doesn't it? And especially for people that are not that familiar with CSS. Like, for instance, me.


Indeed, yes. It's just wrong.
Kind Regards,

Angelic1.

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Kahr
Posts: 167
Location: Svelvik, Norway

Post by Kahr »

Perhaps, I just don't know any other ways of doing it. As for this site, I don't know. But it works for me.
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angelic1
Posts: 36
Location: Planet Earth, I hope.

Post by angelic1 »

Hello again. As I said earlier, it'd be very simple to do as it's not a complex design. I'm here to assist if the webmasters of this site want to do it correctly.

Hope this information helps in triggering this.

Regards,
Kind Regards,

Angelic1.

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evi|one
Posts: 211
Location: Netherlands

Post by evi|one »

I could do it if "incorrect use of markup" is what bothers you.
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evi|one
Posts: 211
Location: Netherlands

Post by evi|one »

There's a problem though: the footer. How can you make it stay at the bottom of the page? We use <table height="100%"> now, and yes, i know that's not valid.
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angelic1
Posts: 36
Location: Planet Earth, I hope.

Post by angelic1 »

There's a few ways you could do it, but i'd need to see how you've dealt with the header and how you've implemented any side stuff, i.e. on the index the news/poll.

Have you got it uploaded anywhere?
Kind Regards,

Angelic1.

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evi|one
Posts: 211
Location: Netherlands

Post by evi|one »

Heh, I didn't even start working on it, I have other priorities right now (uni). The way to do it -- i guess -- would be to use a <div> for the contents of the page, (that <div> will have margin-right:NNNpx) and include the side boxes in another <div> (with width:NNNpx and float:right).

Does that make any sense? :)
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Kahr
Posts: 167
Location: Svelvik, Norway

Post by Kahr »

Yes, it kind of does. But are you talking about CSS or Layers now? Layers are built up kind of the same way.

Oh, and angelic1, what are Layers for, then?
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evi|one
Posts: 211
Location: Netherlands

Post by evi|one »

CSS Layers = <div> elements with position:absolute and z-index:n. And no, I don't like using them.
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FasTK|LLeR
Posts: 105
Location: Morocco

Post by FasTK|LLeR »

/me think about new skin for The Undernet forum :devil:
Past Undernet webmaster
Past Class Tutor

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simba
Posts: 209
Location: UK, Cambridge

Post by simba »

if it uses he undernet colours :)