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 Post subject: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:55 am
Posts: 186
Location: Panamá, Panamá City
Well, seems this topic go to long...


Last edited by truenitos on Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:02 am
Posts: 42
I hear you loud and clear, Truenos. It is sad but true as you say.

Most ppl estimate at least 25-50% of this network is drones/abuse. Some estimate much higher.

Some drones like the girly bots... you know those lovable Aldora23 Lolita16 Mary23 ones that spam you on-join... have been around now for years. Their patterns can be easily matched and the drones removed from the network... yet after years, they're still connecting to this network and infecting more and more new users.

Then ya got the newer ones... * WAPVVDFG (~COWSLCDN@ip68-10-236-50.hr.hr.cox.net)... those seems to be affecting all Undernet chans as well... again pattern matchable and removable to stop the spam.

Those are just 2 spambot examples that something *could* be done about but isn't.

How about floodbots? Here's a nice net I reported a few times that nothing has been done about :
Type this in your IRC client :

/who ??9????????? n%nuhr
/who ??8????????? n%nuhr

with digits 0-9

Couple thousand of those in one net... all easily matchable

There's hundreds of examples of different spam and floodbots on this network.

There's so much you could be doing to protect your users against these abuses.

What I argue here is that as network administrators, it is your responsibility to do what you reasonably can to protect your users. I've had countless ircops sit and directly tell me it's not their problem nor responsibility to deal with all this abuse. If I don't like it, I can go elsewhere they say. That's a load of crap.

How many millions, or billions, of spams are sent out on your network every year?
How many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of innocent users get infected while visiting your IRC network?

You don't feel the slightest bit of responsibility towards your users to help keep them protected?

Here's a couple ideas/suggestions for you to make things better, rather than just telling you what's wrong.

1) On-Connect Regex Scans... I'm aware of your D bot, I also know that the regex system in it needs alot of improvement, and that the maintainer for the D bot is rarely active. This is all evident by the huge number of regex matchable drones I see online every day.

2) Regex-Capable /who command... you need to be able to filter those results down alot better than the current /who system does... this'll give ircops greater ability to quickly respond to floods and to scan for spambots or other abusive bots.

3) Specific Abuse IRCops that deal with Abuse. These IRCops would have the ability to flood commands to the server (such as glines or kills) and be allowed to use custom scripts to either manual-assist or automatically deal with abuse. Telling ppl to email abuse-exploits@undernet.org is a joke... users need real-time help. Perhaps limit the regex who command to only these abuse operators. You've already got a handful of IRCops that are more than willing to take the role of an Abuse Operator.

4) The IAUTH system being designed and in use now is a good idea, but the quote pass portion of it is way too easy to bypass with a one-liner script. This needs to be made more secure so abusers can't just add *one line* to their code to walk past your check.

All of these things can be done... dalnet does them, efnet does them, and they set millions upon millions of glines per year... most of them automated... and those networks are noticably cleaner than Undernet is.

So why aren't they being done?

Afraid of the DDOS retaliation from all the abusive groups you harbor?
Afraid to infringe on that great to hide behind "unmoderated medium" excuse?
Perhaps you'll find the 1% exception that you can't match, and use it as a reason to do nothing about the other 99%?
Afraid to lose that top3 network spot when your network size is cut in half with the drones all gone?

I wish I could open a POLL right now with the question :

"Is it the network's responsibility to do what is reasonably possible to protect it's users from spam and floods?"
YES / NO / MAYBE


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:06 am
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Location: Behind You!
/me Says YES



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It was fun, but this network is sooooo corrupted by morons, its not worth it.
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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:06 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:54 am
Posts: 1
yep, it's network job to protect user to a good extent,
but at some point user also has to act responsibly.. like not clicking on links that end with .exe and offers Jessica Alba's naked pictures ;d


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:58 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Romania
Guys, i found a drone channel abt 3-4 months ago. Some guy "*!*@abuses.users.undernet.org" joined that channel , cleared modes and starts a discussion with that guy that loaded drones. After that talk , he oped that abusers and didn't gline that drones. Later , that drone loaders shows me some logs where "*!*@abuses.users.undernet.org" helped drone loader to take his nickname and glined some bots for him.
These posts will not solve any problems. If u contact a *staff* member about a problem with bots or drones you get some nice answers: "got to go" , "not right now" , "i'm away" , "I don't have time" (then they say to send a e-mail to abuse-exploits@undernet.org with logs). You send that mail with logs and what do you get? You get flooded again. So just relax :)
No offence but this is the pure true.



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:09 am 
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Hi `Dan.

I must congratulate you for finding a drone channel, that's so impressive. It's also impressive that you talked to the drone loaders. Since you know them so good and they tell you everything I am wondering why they flood you. By the way, we really didn't need your post, and learn how to use /silence if you get flooded that often as you say. It's easier to cry than to try to solve the problems as much as you can, isn't it ?

:classic:



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:41 pm
Posts: 33
Hello,

From one point of the a view I understand the server admins, as they don't want to get in a fight with large botnets, from fear of retaliation. This is totally understandable, as those server are being run by their own money, and massive DDOS's adversaly effect their profitable business too. But let's analyze how these botnets are being born. The botnet grows by distributing malicious worms, which infect innocent users. In order to cut down a botnet, you should not g-line them all at once, cause 1. they will retaliate and 2. the botnet structure changes rapidly, with new drones going in to the botnet and old ones dying out. In order to stop the growing of a botnet, the network should put more resources on training normal users of how to protect their self from malicious things and if infected, how could they get help. By filtering out the drones which redistribute the malicious package, the botnet get's a quite a huge blow, cause that is it's primary income of resources. By cutting the resources, botnets eventually die out. This where Sanitariums idea could come in, by filtering out those "drones" upon connect, so they could not infect any more people. I know those regex things take up resources, which is unwanted, but by limiting those "powers" to a special group of people, it can be a managable plus. Of course this needs more detailed analysis which depends totally, how commited this group of people are.

Regards,

Sancy


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:29 pm 
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Mitko wrote:
Hi `Dan.

I must congratulate you for finding a drone channel, that's so impressive. It's also impressive that you talked to the drone loaders. Since you know them so good and they tell you everything I am wondering why they flood you. By the way, we really didn't need your post, and learn how to use /silence if you get flooded that often as you say. It's easier to cry than to try to solve the problems as much as you can, isn't it ?

:classic:

If we don't need user's posts, opinions, comments and ideas then what we need ? suggest him how to use protection and stop shutting them up.Those are his opinions ... we should respect them. Sometimes or even most of the times ideas and thoughts could help coders and administrators.



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:51 pm 
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sancy wrote:
Hello,

From one point of the a view I understand the server admins, as they don't want to get in a fight with large botnets, from fear of retaliation. This is totally understandable, as those server are being run by their own money, and massive DDOS's adversaly effect their profitable business too. But let's analyze how these botnets are being born. The botnet grows by distributing malicious worms, which infect innocent users. In order to cut down a botnet, you should not g-line them all at once, cause 1. they will retaliate and 2. the botnet structure changes rapidly, with new drones going in to the botnet and old ones dying out. In order to stop the growing of a botnet, the network should put more resources on training normal users of how to protect their self from malicious things and if infected, how could they get help. By filtering out the drones which redistribute the malicious package, the botnet get's a quite a huge blow, cause that is it's primary income of resources. By cutting the resources, botnets eventually die out. This where Sanitariums idea could come in, by filtering out those "drones" upon connect, so they could not infect any more people. I know those regex things take up resources, which is unwanted, but by limiting those "powers" to a special group of people, it can be a managable plus. Of course this needs more detailed analysis which depends totally, how commited this group of people are.

Regards,

Sancy


You have an interesting point of view Sancy ! I agree with you and I could tell you that the undernet user-com (that deals with classes and guidance) could create projects based on this ideas, sometimes we need more then technology/coding to dissolve a problem.



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:58 pm
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Heh mister Mitko they flood me because i have the courage to stand up when they play god.



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:03 pm 
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How exactly are you standing up to them? You're just putting more wood on the fire. The best way to avoid those is to literally AVOID them.
But hey, if you like getting disconnected on a regular basis, fine by me ;)
Oh and mitko is right you know, sure we should respect each other's opinions and all that, but if you must post something, do it constructively, bring something interesting to read, something users can use as good information, i believe a paragraph in the forum AUP states that.
Sucks when you're forced to use your wits while posting uh? ;)

Wolfyx



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:44 pm 
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Dooku you're right.

When I get mad at people who are kidding with me while I am trying to help someone, you always warned me to respect other's thoughts and opinions. But when one of you makes jokes about people's opinions or kidding as if the owner of undernet, nobody can warn you, can they? Because we aren't labourer of Undernet but you created this server even this world. Infact I don't care who talks.. we're all equal as we're all human.. and guys your instigating skills are just terrible, Don't forget this is community!
Because of this, respect everyone for they are human, no matter what or who are..



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:09 am 
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Comunity ?
see this:

xplora wrote:
`Dan wrote:
It say's *Undernet* not *UnderNet IRC Network* , UnderNet is a comunity not just a IRC Network dude..


Erm, actually Undernet is just an IRC network, it also has extra's.



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:14 am 
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And i realy understand that server admins are afraid of ddos attaks but a solution must exist. About "opinions" some guys must read about "democracy" in a dictionary. I posted that because i consider it an abuse and nothing can change my opinion. Have fun.



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet Drones
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:41 pm
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By flamming everyone who has anything to do with this will not resolve these issues. People give ideas don't flame!

Sancy


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