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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:48 pm 
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sirAndrew wrote:
Consider the consequences of your actions and stop being selfish and only thinking about what YOU want, what YOU need, and what YOU think it`s better. Is it better for everyone else around undernet? Is it better for undernet? Or it`s just your oppinion that it would be COOL?


why this forum : how can we improve undernet exists if we cant say what we think?

i didnt say USE nefarious i said that these modes are on nefarious for and we could get inspired for example.

they can add +R and or any new channel modes, it wont get undernet ddosed. dont drama the situation and see the apocalypse, its only few modes that could improve undernet. (your totaly out of the subject)



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:32 pm 
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Changed wrote:
No one is monitoring real users, users that come and have fun and chat, but someone is monitoring the abusers,this modes are not here to help us stop people talking, chating, having fun, this modes are for staying out of trouble, noone will ddos a server for seting a channel mode but will probably do for glining, compy from all those 100000+ users, 50% or more are drones, and for sir, glining drones is the last resort, for the ones who know what drones mean/are.

pOth


I wasnt referring to "real people" im referring to connection counts (100,000+) and that alone results in CPU usage, and the more users, the more of a tax on servers. And to those who think thats not a big deal, server performance determines if providers even sponsor a server at times, quit thinking inside the box.

Also most of you probably dont even know what Nefarious is by the way you are talking. It's just a hacked up version of ircu with a few improvements and extra modes... Services also have to be tweaked each time we add a mode or a new feature (chanfix, X, euworld etc). Think of it as a chain effect.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:35 am 

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This thread puzzles me! What is the purpose of this section then? It is true that us "regular users" may not have the big picture. Can anyone give me a list of improvements on Undernet which was originally suggested here? Does this section exist only to make us feel as being part of something that really we are not part of?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:00 am 
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Actually...if you browse the forum for ideeas and view most of the post in the forum you would see some....you missunderstand totally the point of a forum. It`s a discussion place....things are discussed...nobody garantees your ideeas will be implemented, nobody even garantees they will be taken into consideration, or even read. You also missunderstand the term of ideaa. You can give the proper people ideeas but that doesn`t mean they will listen to you....

If you don`t like it....just don`t post, but it`s better to post an ideea and wait to see what happens, if it`s no taken into consideration....come up with another one...Think constructive...don`t just complaint and complaint and complain. You should think like this: Fine, you didn`t like that, how about this? Or that. Why always criticise?



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:35 pm 
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No one complaint or criticised, u are. i just proposed +R and read ur post above.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:45 am 
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Stefanoo wrote:
No one complaint or criticised, u are. i just proposed +R and read ur post above.


stefanoo, sirandrew was talking to gemeau50



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:01 am 
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Jonny wrote:
Yes, let’s stop improving undernet because it taxes the servers. And what’s that un-moderated status you are talking about? Those modes would help channels that need them, it’s not like we ask that those modes be set by default, if channels ops want them, they should be able to use them.

un-moderated = undernet does not view modify or otherwise control what a user says in a channel.
taxes the servers = slows them down = not an improvement.
As in the benefit of having the servers strip characters/filter/moderate (as in strip unwanted words, like filtering, not +m) channel text is outweighed by how much slower the servers would adversly become.
Jonny wrote:
And what about these modes:

+m, if a channel has it and you are not voiced or opped you can’t change the nickname, why wasn’t there another mode added for this? +m should just moderate the discussion/channel and nothing else.

This is just a guess but perhaps because nick changing can be seen in the channel, and as a result is a way around the +m
Jonny wrote:
You talk about un-moderated status, why did they add +D/+d then? It hides the users joins. This mode is the most useless mode that I’ve seen, it only helps some official channels.

Actually the way i see it, +D/+d actually support the un-moderated status. And it's best use is a +m (moderated) channel being used for teaching purposes.
Jonny wrote:
And if some modes tax the servers, then they should be upgraded.

You want to pay for it? (remember all undernet servers are volunteered)



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:33 am 
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Stefanoo wrote:
no it taxes not much more. you just add Nefarious to ircu.

+Q +C +N +T +S could be very intresting for channels like #CService for example.

Lets pretend to process an example right now.

Currently without these modes, (this is not in a specific order, just what makes sense to me) a server checks the destination is a channel or a user, if the destination is a user it then checks if the sender is /silence'd by the user, and send if not, if the destination is a channel, it checks if the sender is on the channel, if on the channel if the sender is opped/voiced, if not opped/voiced/ if the channel is +m, if not +m if +r and sender is logged in, if not, is sender banned.

to add your modes, the server then has to check those modes for each message, and if those modes are set the server has to start matching characters in the text of the message, for CTCP it's ctrl-A for colours its ctrl-C (mirc converts the ctrl-K you type into a ctrl-C), for Bold/Inverse/undernline is a series of other control characters. the problem is the server has to do this character by character, thankfully only until it finds a matching character, but lets just for example pretend someone always ends their long limes with a colourful smiley, that could be 200-300 characters or more that the server has to scan.

Note, Bans and /silence have to be processed this way (and actually more complex)

Now think about how a server would be affected by a channel getting flooded, instead of having 4/5 yes/no and a single text scan (ban or silence) it now has to do another longer larger scan as well.

Stefanoo wrote:
T is like for example: #CService is +T and someone joins it and /ame hi allll
well his message wont apear on #CService

so you are talking about /me ? thats a ctcp suddenly +T is a wasted mode if +C exists, unless you expect +C to know the difference between a /me (try this /ctcp nick ACTION is here, nick will receive a /me ie * nick is here) and the rest of the CTCP's which is more filtering, more tax on the servers.

These modes are FAR better handled by the irc client not the server.

Stefanoo wrote:
N well no one can /notice #cservice


#CService will never use such a mode, we use /onotice heavily

Stefanoo wrote:
xplora wrote:
+M - +r already does this


M is not like +r

+r is when only registered users can join the channel.

+M = only registered users can chat in the channel
unregistered can still join and part it but wont be able to chat aslong they are not logged in.

Now this idea sounds good. However it can be achieved with +m and a bot autovoicing logged in users.

but I'm afraid user mode +R is a waste of time when other options are available.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:41 am 
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As a side note I realise I should point out, that I personally am against any idea that involves the servers having to filter/process the content of a user message. thats what bots are for.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:25 am 
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fine, i understand and respect your points. you must somehow be right as u know more the undernet abilities. but i still belive that +R or +M wont cause much of trouble and are helpful. ( it worth a try )
now of course it all depends from which perspective you see the use of it.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:32 am 
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Stefanoo wrote:
fine, i understand and respect your points. you must somehow be right as u know more the undernet abilities. but i still belive that +R or +M wont cause much of trouble and are helpful. ( it worth a try )
now of course it all depends from which perspective you see the use of it.


Would allowing everyone an O-Line cause any trouble? Would it be worth a try? It is possible, but that doesn't mean it should be done, even if someone/everyone thinks it would be helpful. Last time I looked, Undernet was still free to use thanks to those that donate server resources. Shall we tax those resources to the point that no server admin would ever consider providing such a service without compensation?

Fortunately for me, I use mIRC, and can therefore script pretty much anything I want my client to do. Read your help files and you'll be able to do the same. That's how I learned! Anytime you run into problems, there are channels and websites to help you get past them.

Unfortunately, there are still people using out-of-date scripts such as Peace And Protection that hasn't been updated for years. Worse still, most users of this stuff don't know how to "fix" or alter their scripts. Then they complain in all the wrong places (mIRC help channels, Undernet and mIRC forums, to their "puter-literate bro-in-law") and expect others to help make THEIR script act the way THEY expect it to.

Instead of complaining about what you DON'T have access to on Undernet, why not learn more about your client, and computers in general, to solve YOUR needs!

MrEen

P.S.

I realize you may not see your post as complaining but try to look at it from the other side. You may see it as just a possibly good idea (that can be solved with scripting.) But anything the client CAN do should be done by the CLIENT, not the SERVER, if you would like to have Undernet around for any length of time!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:48 am 
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suggesting a +R is a complaint now?
Complaining is when someone isnt happy with the actual situation.
Suggesting an improvment is when you propose a new "thing" as an extra option.
Allow me to say that you need to know how to distinguish that befor u debate.

i myself am glad with the undernet services. suggesting a mode doesnt necesarly mean complaining even if you see it from any other side.

xplora made some points where i mainly agreed with.

Regadring ur note about CLIENTS and not SERVERS. its a good point. i totaly agree with you. but the debate is how improving undernet and not how improving IRC as in global. (even so those two improvments are related due the fact that undernet is the second largest network and a main contributor to IRC.)



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:40 am 

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uhm, xplora, to reply on your first post regarding the usage of silence instead of the what you all call 'obsolete' +R.
Your solution will only work on people that are set +x. Not everyone is, so people that are not using +x, but are registered, will also be ignored.



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:22 pm 
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OUTsider wrote:
uhm, xplora, to reply on your first post regarding the usage of silence instead of the what you all call 'obsolete' +R.
Your solution will only work on people that are set +x. Not everyone is, so people that are not using +x, but are registered, will also be ignored.


It does look that way, but the servers actually keep both the +x and non +x host valid (as I understand it) for ban and silence matching, whether we are +x or not, from the moment we log in. So the silence masks work as long as the message senders are logged in.

I do admit, +R would be more useful from a client perspective as multiple networks could impliment it, saving clients from having to change the mask's on a per network basis.



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:12 pm 
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To be honest, it is not that difficult to have a client do what you ask.
Personally I use a /away, which I am all the time.

If you are adding a script, you add it once and leave it.
I still have scripts from 1995 that I am using in my irc client.



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