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 Post subject: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:55 pm
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Location: Beirut
Well, +R its good for some people who dont want to be bothered by spam, or noobs...

For example if ur not logged in and pvting me, it will give you this.

SpamBot You need to login to services to PRIVMSG Stefano.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:21 am 
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Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
You can do that now with something like...

/away Sorry I only accept messages from users logged into X
/silence *!*@*,~*!*@*.undernet.org,~*!*@undernet.org

(note I do admit that everyone that messages you (logged in or not) would see that away message)



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:14 am 
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No i dont agree.
Improving undernet i belive is by its modes not by tricks.
good try :)



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:36 pm 
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Are you really *that* lazy? We have these tools for you to use. Dont focus on "hey lets be cool and have a useless mode +R instead of solving it with what we already have"

Look at the solution, you have the tools, use them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:09 pm 
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Im proposing to drive a car and you guys are saying what for, cant you walk?

Why X exists? isnt to provide better services to users?
Why scripts exists ? arent they designed to aide users in doing repetitive things?

let me guess, ur gona say im lasy because i have a perform right?

just compare this out and tell me if mathematicaly you sound reasonable

/away Sorry I only accept messages from users logged into X
/silence *!*@*,~*!*@*.undernet.org,~*!*@undernet.org

or

//mode $me +R

as still the result is not the same.

The idea is not to find solutions to the problem, the subject is how can we improve undernet. well improving its services is like inproving its infrastructure.

NB: These #channel modes could also satisfy many users:

+S - strip (if someone types in colors, everyone will see it without colors)
+C - no ctcp
+Q - no quit/parts reasons
+N - no notice
+T - no amsg
+M - not authed users cannot talk
*** +O - oper only
*** +A - admin only



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:26 am 
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Economically, your suggestions also tax on server performance.

and im really referring to in the mean time, just use a remote, its simple.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:03 pm 
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Stefanoo wrote:
NB: These #channel modes could also satisfy many users:

+S - strip (if someone types in colors, everyone will see it without colors)
+C - no ctcp
+Q - no quit/parts reasons
+N - no notice
+T - no amsg
+M - not authed users cannot talk
*** +O - oper only
*** +A - admin only


Some networks do have similar settings to some of these, but I am just going to help further the discussion by raising the issues these create...

+S +C - not only create a tax on the server (what compy was refering to) also kill undernets unmoderated status, and besides, in their case it's better that the client does it.
+Q - is also better that the client does it. this is actually covered by +m
+N - is just straight a bad idea, X and the Servers use notices. as well as any bot written properly, and CTCP replies are sent by /notice. in short +N potentially breaks the irc protocol :( it should also be noted that /onotice is a notice.
+T - ?? amsg ? do you mean "all message", my irc client (ircle) calls that /broadcast, there is no way for the server to handle that, the irc clients actually go to the trouble of /msg each channel and/or nick, if you did not mean "all message" but perhaps /me thats a ctcp command, better handeled by your irc client, if you meant something else, please explain
+M - +r already does this
+O +A - er huh??



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Cleveland OH, USA
Yes, let’s stop improving undernet because it taxes the servers. And what’s that un-moderated status you are talking about? Those modes would help channels that need them, it’s not like we ask that those modes be set by default, if channels ops want them, they should be able to use them.

And what about these modes:

+m, if a channel has it and you are not voiced or opped you can’t change the nickname, why wasn’t there another mode added for this? +m should just moderate the discussion/channel and nothing else.

+r is a good mode, too bad that not all users can get usernames so that they can join them.

You talk about un-moderated status, why did they add +D/+d then? It hides the users joins. This mode is the most useless mode that I’ve seen, it only helps some official channels.

xplora wrote:
/away Sorry I only accept messages from users logged into X
/silence *!*@*,~*!*@*.undernet.org,~*!*@undernet.org

Not all servers support it yet.

And if some modes tax the servers, then they should be upgraded.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:49 pm
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Location: Timisoara / Romania
Cool, why not support the ones that abuse the "unmoderated" thing? child porn, warez, file sharing, let them spam as long as they want, let them flood channels with all kind of colors and in all possible ways, let them infect as many people as they like by spamming, why getting new modes for us, we are just "guests" as most call us and not for opers as some modes where as +D.

Why is Undernet like this and why we even have to think of getting modes to prevent spam and flood and all? because 1 maybe 2 of 10 opers really fight against it, too bad ... there are others who help the abusers, when you tell them "good job" in private, the answer was: "I aim to please", others who give out other opers/helpers info.

I wonder what does really "improve" means for some people.
But heh, that's Undernet

pOth



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:05 pm 
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no it taxes not much more. you just add Nefarious to ircu.

+Q +C +N +T +S could be very intresting for channels like #CService for example.

T is like for example: #CService is +T and someone joins it and /ame hi allll
well his message wont apear on #CService

N well no one can /notice #cservice

xplora wrote:
+M - +r already does this


M is not like +r

+r is when only registered users can join the channel.

+M = only registered users can chat in the channel
unregistered can still join and part it but wont be able to chat aslong they are not logged in.

I mean whats wrong with these modes? why not? i bet thousands of users would die to get some of them.

more modes cant harm. and the user mode +R can be done and will be greeted by all users.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:49 pm
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Location: Timisoara / Romania
Those modes would help alot, especialy the big channels, would be great to have something like that on a chan like #romania for example
( biggest registred chan on Undernet ) and many many others. Why not explain this to all and let the users vote? would be a democratic way, this is also bad on undernet, 5-10 people decide for us all, if one wakes up in the morning with and idea, it will be solved, if someone from outside comes out with a good idea, no way, I would really like to see a vote of all on that.


Great that you posted it Stefano, some of the ideas are old some are new but it never happend by now

pOth



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:02 pm 
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I agree that the modes would do some good, we just currently have ways to solve these problems with what we have. More modes means more documentation, more CPU usage (try it on an active 100,000+ user network if you dont believe me, yes I use nefarious and tested it)

We also have to vote such changes into play, and each change requires each server on undernet to reboot at sometime or another, thus bringing network issues, so we do ircd changes sparingly.

Also as I said on "other" posts, this is NOT the highest priority.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:16 pm 
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well, i agree with u that there is one bad thing, is to restart each ircd, and its messy. i agree. but it worth the effort. i doubte any will mind getting disconect for few minuts for such update.

well im sure that u now understand what i am talking about. since you compy are part of those who worked on nefarious. im sure u belive in it.

well our idea is there now. i hope it will reach the those who can make a change.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:21 pm 
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NEfarious? Stefano you do realise what you are saying do you? Dude ircu has been specially created as an ircd deamon for undernet, do you really think undernet coders will accepting adding software that has not been created by them? lo...that would be something.

That un-moderated status that the undernet currently has allows many of the users of undernet to connect to undernet, have fun on undernet and be in an enviroment they feel like home doing whatever they want to do, UNLESS they abuse undernet`s resources and brake the few rules undernet has. Why would people want to come to a community where they are virtually controled by the staff, and are monitored round the clock. Sure that would save undernet alot of trouble with drones, illegal activities such as carding and filesharing.

You have to look at the big picture, undernet is mainly concerned about staying in one piece. Glineing all drones and abusers will only get undernet in more trouble as server ddos would increase. I have seen undernet servers being ddosed for nicknames. Instead undernet has came up with solutions to help the innocent users avoid contact and conflicts with the abusers.

There`s no need to turn undernet into a dungeon adding strict modes. Imagine if undernet`s dedicated servers sometimes don`t rezist to ddos for stupid reasons such as an oper not performing a mode, would you tiny ircds ran on shells rezist? I think not.

Undernet thanks you for your concern and the ideeas you come with for improving it`s services however i feel the need to repet myself: LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE. Consider the consequences of your actions and stop being selfish and only thinking about what YOU want, what YOU need, and what YOU think it`s better. Is it better for everyone else around undernet? Is it better for undernet? Or it`s just your oppinion that it would be COOL?



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:49 pm
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Location: Timisoara / Romania
No one is monitoring real users, users that come and have fun and chat, but someone is monitoring the abusers,this modes are not here to help us stop people talking, chating, having fun, this modes are for staying out of trouble, noone will ddos a server for seting a channel mode but will probably do for glining, compy from all those 100000+ users, 50% or more are drones, and for sir, glining drones is the last resort, for the ones who know what drones mean/are.

pOth



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