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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:23 pm 
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Stefanoo wrote:
No i dont agree.
Improving undernet i belive is by its modes not by tricks.
good try :)


I hadn't really noticed the above comment (or maybe I was ignoring it as being argumentative, either way...).
Adding a mode to do something that is already possible is not improving undernet, it is only adding a trick.

Very good try tho :)



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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:03 am 
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xplora wrote:
You can do that now with something like...

/away Sorry I only accept messages from users logged into X
/silence *!*@*,~*!*@*.undernet.org,~*!*@undernet.org

(note I do admit that everyone that messages you (logged in or not) would see that away message)



Two problems:

1. Xplora already stated one. EVERYONE would get that away message, logged in or not.
2. What if you're not away? Using the /away functionality to send messages to ALL people, and not just a subset of the users connected isn't the answer.

I think /away should be used for what it was intended, and for only what it was intended. Using an /away msg to communicate to all users out there that you only accept msgs from registered clients is silly. If you care that much, just program your remote to check the host, send a message back to that user, and add that host to your ignore list.

I'm not sure adding the +R is necessary since you CAN program a remote to do the job for you. I'm not privy to how much load the servers currently have to withstand, so I can't really speak to whether or not it should be included as a feature.



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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:17 am 
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ramdac wrote:
If you care that much, just program your remote to check the host, send a message back to that user, and add that host to your ignore list.


Now there is a problem in your solution too. Checking the host and sending a message back to the user would result excess flood in some cases, for example if you're flooded. So maybe the best solution (if it's really needed and I think it's not) is to put a new line in the whois info which will say that the user is using silence and messages sent to the user may not be delivered, but not with this many words of course.

Best Regards.



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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:55 am 
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ramdac wrote:
Two problems:

1. Xplora already stated one. EVERYONE would get that away message, logged in or not.
2. What if you're not away? Using the /away functionality to send messages to ALL people, and not just a subset of the users connected isn't the answer.

I think /away should be used for what it was intended, and for only what it was intended. Using an /away msg to communicate to all users out there that you only accept msgs from registered clients is silly. If you care that much, just program your remote to check the host, send a message back to that user, and add that host to your ignore list.


I actually agree, it's not what /away is intended for, and I have since mentioned that I do think +R is a good idea. ;)



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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:19 am 
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ok now ... I don't want to be mean or anything but why "R" and not "r" because it interfears with +r channel mode ? :wink: because undernet doesn't have capital letters modes (for users) and this one would "break the rule" :( , I've seen in other nets something like CrDsM and all sorts of things, please keep in mind that we are doing this to protect the users, especially the new/novice users, who need everything as simple as they could get, even now after months of explanations they still don't know what is +D and they are confused... :roll:



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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:18 am 
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Dooku wrote:
ok now ... I don't want to be mean or anything but why "R" and not "r" because it interfears with +r channel mode ? :wink: because undernet doesn't have capital letters modes (for users) and this one would "break the rule" :( , I've seen in other nets something like CrDsM and all sorts of things, please keep in mind that we are doing this to protect the users, especially the new/novice users, who need everything as simple as they could get, even now after months of explanations they still don't know what is +D and they are confused... :roll:


Well, mith busted. :bandit: One example is channel mode +i (invite only), and user mode +i (invisible mode). So you're wrong. Anyway, IsAccount() is related to user mode 'r', so when you're logging in to services (X) the server sets user mode +r. You can't set or unset the mode manually of course, and if you don't see it, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It has been like this for many many years. So there's the answer why not 'r', and why 'R'. I tried to explain this as clear as possible without mentioning code so I hope it was good enough.

Best regards.



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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:36 pm 

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You folks really kinda force me to make a reply here, so here it comes.

First of all, +N (no channel notice allowed), yes it's true that this mode *would* block ctcp replies, but only ctcp replies TARGETTED TO THE CHANNEL. Whenever you send out a CTCP to a channel, you would still get replies since every client that would have been adressed replies to the client directly and not to the channel. So +N does not interfere with CTCP replies. Any client that still would get blocked by this has a bug replying to the target of the ctcp request, and not the source.
Secondly, someone mentioned services taking use of notices. And it would break that. Bullcrap, simply pass the notice regardless of the presence of +N using IsServer(sptr) || IsService(sptr)

+C (no channel ctcp allowed) you might want to think that this would also break CTCP ACTION which is the popular /me command in most clients. The code that is present for this already takes those into account and it's a real saver against most kiddies who simply flood the channel with CTCP PING/FINGER/TIME etc in order to maximize the effect of the flood (why target them one by one if you can target them all at once ?), so yes, +N could make a difference in dealing with floods on channels.

+Q/+u (no quit/part reasons shown in channel). As far as I know +m does NOT hide quit or part reasons, maybe that changed in ircu 2.10.12, but +u does not make the channel require to be moderated in order to prevent your visitors from seeing the spam usually used in quit/part reasons by kiddies or the long chain of floodtext mostly attached by drones in order to yet again, maximize irritation on the channel in order to force clients to have enough of it and part the channel. I remember asuka using +u for this and nefarious +Q.

+R (privmsg to user from authed users only). I agree that the silence system IS effective, however, everytime a client would need to add this sequence on connect in his / her perform, sending out like 60 chars on every connect in order to protect himself. And memory might be cheap, but let's consider that this way of emulating +R takes more memory from *EVERY* server per client, because each server has the silence list stored per user, and on every privmsg the server has to loop through the silence list. A simple +R is only a flag the code has to check against: if (IsRegOnly(cptr) && !IsAccount(sptr)) send reply to client that he needs to be authed. Also I agree that /away messages should be used in the way as supposed to be, and not in order to tell clients about the privmsg block. People would need to /whois <nick> <nick> in order to get the idle time of the client in order to see if a user is really away or not. Yet more traffic that would get wasted due to improper use of a feature.

+T (amsg block). Yes, indeed, THIS mode taxes on cpu load for the reason that the ircd first has to wait for a block of privmsg's to arrive from a client (a minimum of 2) in order to determine if it is a broadcast or not. Should there be a vote, then I would vote NO for this mode as I'd see the loads rising sky high and lag increasing because every user has to post a minimum of 2 privmsg's before the first one is shown.

+S (strip colors). Users can strip off colors on their end, almost every client supports that and I do not suggest to add this mode at all because again, messages have to get filtered before transmitting which puts unneccesary load on servers and has no advantage against abusive behaviour, use +c instead if you want to disallow colors and have the client affected decide to turn off colors on that channel for his privmsgs.

+c (deny colors). This code is almost exactly the same as the noctcp code and might be a usefull addon for channel management if disallowing colors is one of their rules. Does not place much overhead on the serverload and could be added as additional feature. I think undernet ircu is one of the few still not having this. All other ircds do.

+M (deny chanprivmsg from unauthed). Why the hell would you need that for ? Just to add yet another form of restriction on unauthed users ? Use the existing +r chanmode in order to block unauthed clients from your channel.

+O (oper only). Yes, usefull, would enable opers to join certain restricted channels without needing to invite themself constantly through X or EUWorld just use +O instead of +i and save a lot of cycles of cpu power on those services.

+A (admin only). I don't really see the purpose of splitting opers into two groups. Simply keep it to +O as limiter, you know who your admins are, and sometimes an oper also wants to speak to the admin board directly. So in my opinion this mode is unneeded.

Yes, Compy, this will add a little overhead to the ircd, however, compared to the save you'd gain by adding some of these you also would save traffic getting send out to others that might have a malicious intend. CPU is cheap and most of the modes that block certain stuff only gets handled by the server the client is on.

xplora: /onotice is an alias for notice @# which can also be used using the ircu internal /wallchops (@#) or /wallvoices (+#) command, in there you can still allow it to pass in case the +N would be active. This is just a protection against plain notices.

Jonny wrote:
+m, if a channel has it and you are not voiced or opped you can’t change the nickname, why wasn’t there another mode added
for this? +m should just moderate the discussion/channel and nothing else.

The nickchange is not allowed if the user has a ban active on him in any channel.

Compy wrote:
Also most of you probably dont even know what Nefarious is by the way you are talking. It's just a hacked up version of ircu with a few improvements and extra modes... Services also have to be tweaked each time we add a mode or a new feature (chanfix, X, euworld etc). Think of it as a chain effect.

Actually just the core of gnuworld, a one time patch for these modes needs to be in the core in order to have all the modules (mod.chanfix, mod.cservice and mod.ccontrol) support these new modes. They only need to support them, they do not need to have special code added in the modules in order to support.

xplora wrote:
to add your modes, the server then has to check those modes for each message, and if those modes are set the server has to start matching characters in the text of the message, for CTCP it's ctrl-A for colours its ctrl-C (mirc converts the ctrl-K you type into a ctrl-C), for Bold/Inverse/undernline is a series of other control characters.

Bold/inverse/underline/the evil blink are indeed also control codes, but are not colors, they are textattributes :devil:

xplora wrote:
It does look that way, but the servers actually keep both the +x and non +x host valid (as I understand it) for ban and silence matching, whether we are +x or not, from the moment we log in. So the silence masks work as long as the message senders are logged in.

They only compare against BOTH versions if the client is +x, since then realuserhost and userhost are present, thus again, if the user is not +x'd the rules you added in the silence mask will fail



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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:41 pm 
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OUTsider wrote:
xplora: /onotice is an alias for notice @# which can also be used using the ircu internal /wallchops (@#) or /wallvoices (+#) command, in there you can still allow it to pass in case the +N would be active. This is just a protection against plain notices.


Not every client converts /onotice into NOTICE @# or WALLCHOPS #, some are blatantly unaware that the server can do it no (some people even still use version of mIRC that predate the server commands)

OUTsider wrote:
Jonny wrote:
+m, if a channel has it and you are not voiced or opped you can’t change the nickname, why wasn’t there another mode added
for this? +m should just moderate the discussion/channel and nothing else.

The nickchange is not allowed if the user has a ban active on him in any channel.

jonny not to mention those that aren't voiced/opped on a +m channel have been known to use nickname changing to get around the +m setting, which in turn becomes very disruptive.

OUTsider wrote:
xplora wrote:
It does look that way, but the servers actually keep both the +x and non +x host valid (as I understand it) for ban and silence matching, whether we are +x or not, from the moment we log in. So the silence masks work as long as the message senders are logged in.

They only compare against BOTH versions if the client is +x, since then realuserhost and userhost are present, thus again, if the user is not +x'd the rules you added in the silence mask will fail

yet in practice I've had both bans and silence masks that match the hidden (+x) host work on those that are not +x



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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Stefanooo, and who else doesn't understand, I'm just telling you this: If you don't like Undernet and it's features, go play elsewhere


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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:51 pm 
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Since this is a community and we're all equal, I hate when people says ''If you dont like that, rules, people, features then go choose another network and play there'' to eachothers, Some people hides behind rules to play, Some people just prefering to say the facts, Some people acts like mercenary. God creates the people multifarious, None smilars to other ones. Everyone has their own way to look at the world, is it differ people to people, Sometimes your rights will seems suck to others, sometimes your mistakes will seems nice to others, But there is no any balance, Better respect to people no matter what or who ever is he\she. Thats the only one way to get along together.This topic says ''How can we improve undernet'' , not how can we implode undernet :}

Here is the only one place, where poeple can go and say their rights, opinions, ideas and sharing the own experience/knowledge with eachothers in respect.

Showing the door of the room is the most easy way you can do, It's very easy to lose people just two magic words is enough. But very hard to win them, acquaintance duration, bring into safety, giving confidence,assure etc etc. it needs a art, time and tolerance, building.. Anyway Im talking so much :P

Keep the well intention.
Best Regards/RevivaL



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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:08 pm 

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How to apply the commands you have mentioned above and added that the server makes only

+S +C ws...


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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:37 pm 
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bysweet wrote:
How to apply the commands you have mentioned above and added that the server makes only

+S +C ws...


+S +C ? That doesn't make sense at all.



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 Post subject: Re: //mode $me +R
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:36 am 
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Crys wrote:
bysweet wrote:
How to apply the commands you have mentioned above and added that the server makes only

+S +C ws...


+S +C ? That doesn't make sense at all.


Crys : +S and +C (as well as others) were discussed earlier in this thread (hence the "mentioned above" in bysweet's post.)

bysweet : I am thinking you are trying to implement your own IRC server based on a couple of your posts. If so, you might be better off posting your questions in the Undernet coder committee section. If not, YOU cannot apply those modes on Undernet yourself.

Hope that helps,
MrEen



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