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 Post subject: Undernet dead?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:45 pm
Posts: 1
I hate to be the one to break the news to you guys but as far as I'm concerned Undernet is officially dead. Starting about 2 months ago the number of Undernet servers I was able to connect with dropped dramatically. I have tried every single one of the "working" Undernet servers listed on both the webpage and scattered throughout the forums. For the last month the only one that would work anymore was Helsinki.fi.eu.undernet.org. Over the last few days I have watched numerous netsplits on and off. Now today it has been literally hours since I could even connect back with Helsinki. To verify that I'm not having an issue I connected to DALnet, EFnet, IRCnet (need I go on?) in a split second with no issues. I know you guys want to defend Undernet but it's just not possible anymore. People all over the globe are having serious issues connecting to Undernet, and despite what anyone might say, it isn't the fault of the user or the user's ISP. The problem here is with Undernet and it's high time someone acknowledged it. It's fairly obvious that the webmasters and mods of the official Undernet webpage have given up on us, but it's starting to seem like everyone in charge of the servers have too. Now, if someone can explain away why I can connect to anybody BUT Undernet and STILL claim it's my issue or my ISP's issue then go right ahead... However, know that unless you've got a very, very good reason, you're just puffing smoke. Anyone else with me on this?


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet dead?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Posts: 6
I agree. I can get to EfNet with no problems. I've had difficulties during the last week connecting to undernet from multiple locations and ISP's. Something is wrong with Undernet and nobody is talking about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet dead?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Posts: 6
furthermore, cservice does not authenticate me anymore. I am NOT fat fingering my password


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet dead?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:22 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Backyard
It isn't dead. What is the message you get when you are trying to connect? Did you try multiple servers in order to connect?



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 Post subject: Re: Undernet dead?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:11 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Posts: 6
*** Connecting to port 6667 of server us.undernet.org
*** Unable to connect to port 6667 of server us.undernet.org: Interrupted
system call


I get the same results when I connect to individual servers as well. Other networks are not a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet dead? / Servers List
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:19 am
Posts: 2
While Undernet is far from dead (a /list will say as much), the number of active servers does appear to be dwindling (big thanks to the people behind Hamburg.de.eu.undernet.org for joining) and those that --are supposed to be active are nigh-on impossible to connect to. Whether that is a cause of Undernet -dying-, or a symptom, may be up for debate.

==================================================

Just to rant on the connection issues... this might in part be on the user's end; i.e. the identd thing. Why the servers continue to all-but-insist on this being active, even though most people will not have this port open and will pose problems for multiple people behind a single router anyway, is beyond me.. but it's clear that it causes a good chunk of the issues as connection attempts will usually stall right after the server complains about the lack of an identd.

Another part might be somewhere in the configuration of the servers. For example, I'm often met with this message (not specific to Helsinki):
[08@20:40:29] -Helsinki.FI.EU.Undernet.org- *** Your forward and reverse DNS do not match, ignoring hostname.
Yet my own ISP's DNS, the Google DNS, lookupserver dot com and others show that my IP resolves exactly to my hostname and my hostname resolves exactly to my IP. They match just fine. So what's it really trying to say there?

And then of course there's just the inexplicable connection attempts that seem to go... but then just drop or stall indefinitely. E.g.
[08@20:31:06] -Helsinki.FI.EU.Undernet.org- on 1 ca 1(4) ft 10(10) tr
[08@20:32:59] * [10053] Software caused connection abort

[08@20:35:33] -Hamburg.DE.EU.undernet.org- Highest connection count: 5929 (5928 clients)
Message of the Day, Hamburg.DE.EU.undernet.org
[08@20:37:46] * Disconnected <-- forced quit because it wasn't going anywhere

That's not to mention the completely oddball (to the end-user) events where you are, seemingly, the only person to be dropped from a particular server*.. you try to reconnect to that same server.. and it won't go. IRC client tries the next server, and the next, and so on, and if your client's server list has already been pruned from servers that refuse to connect you, it will end back up at that same server and there's a good chance you can suddenly connect to it again. * Then you ask in your favorite channel whether there was a netsplit, or if anybody else got disconnected. Nope, it was just you. Go fig.

For what it's worth... I'm in The Netherlands, on the Ziggo network, and here's the results from trying to connect to the servers in the server list (note that there's two.. the incredibly oudated one you'll find via google for 'undernet servers' and is listed in wikipedia (http://www.undernet.org/servers.php ... I will edit the wikipedia entry to fix that link though more information seems seriously outdated) and the far more up-to-date one (http://help.undernet.org/faq.php?what=serverlist) which I only just now spotted in a random thread, so the below results include some servers from the first list that are already no longer listed on the second list.. I've put those separately at the end) at this moment, all connection attempts made on the default port, 6667:
  • bucharest.ro.eu.undernet.org (82.76.255.62 -> 82-76-255-62.rdsnet.ro) - Connection attempt timed out
  • Budapest.HU.EU.UnderNet.org (94.125.182.255 -> ircu.atw.hu) - DNS warning, identd warning, Connected OK
  • Diemen.NL.EU.Undernet.Org (194.109.20.90 -> undernet.xs4all.nl) - DNS warning, identd warning, Connected OK
  • Hamburg.DE.EU.undernet.org (3) - (95.141.29.10 -> irc.euro-transit.net) - DNS warning, identd warning, Connected OK
  • Hamburg.DE.EU.undernet.org - (attempt #2, 3, 5, 9) - Connection attempt timed out. Probably still working on stability.
  • Helsinki.FI.EU.Undernet.org (195.197.175.21 -> irc2.saunalahti.fi) - Long (90s) delay at 'looking up your hostname', Registration Timeout (1). This was a one-time occurrence, it seems.
  • Helsinki.FI.EU.Undernet.org (attempt #2+) - DNS warning, identd warning, Connected OK
  • Lelystad.NL.EU.UnderNet.Org (195.47.220.2 -> dana.basefreak.nl) - Connection attempt timed out
  • Lidingo.SE.EU.Undernet.org (4) - (130.237.188.216 -> lidingo.se.eu.undernet.org) (5) - Connection attempt timed out
  • mesa.az.us.undernet.org (69.16.172.40 -> irc3.easynews.com) - Connection attempt timed out
  • mesa2.az.us.undernet.org (69.16.172.40 -> irc3.easynews.com) - Connection attempt timed out
  • newyork.ny.us.undernet.org (64.18.128.86 -> unable to resolve) - Connection attempt timed out
  • SantaAna.CA.US.Undernet.org (66.186.59.50 -> ircu.krypt.com) - Connection attempt timed out
  • Tampa.FL.US.Undernet.org (208.83.20.130 -> Tampa.FL.US.Undernet.org) (5) - * [10053] Software caused connection abort
  • -----
  • Ede.NL.EU.UnderNet.Org - Disqualified for round-robin DNS (2)
  • Elsene.Be.Eu.undernet.org - Disqualified for round-robin DNS (2)
  • graz.at.Eu.UnderNet.org (129.27.9.248 -> zidpc248.tu-graz.ac.at) - Connection attempt timed out - Was confirmed de-linked
  • oslo.no.eu.undernet.org - Disqualified for round-robin DNS (2)
  • trondheim.no.eu.undernet.org - Disqualified for round-robin DNS (2)
  • Vancouver.BC.CA.Undernet.org (72.51.18.254 -> unable to resolve) - Connection attempt timed out- Was confirmed de-linked
Note that while connecting straight to Helsinki, I got a Registration Timeout. The second time (via Oslo which really was Helsinki anyway (2)), it was slow to connect but OK. The third time through Oslo gave a Connection attempt timeout. The fourth time straight to Helsinki again, it connected me very quickly. It's indicative of trying to connect to most servers.. it's just very unreliable - And this isn't helped by the whole round-robin DNS people get thrown on when trying to connect to some servers (2).

1)
Your client may not be compatible with this server.
Compatible clients are available at ftp://ftp.undernet.org/pub/irc/clients
[08@21:17:32] Server error: ERROR Closing Link: ZB_WpmamJJ by Helsinki.FI.EU.Undernet.org (Registration Timeout)


2) The round-robin DNS is essentially a server listed under a given name causing a connection attempt to a different server altogether due to the DNS record pointing to e.g. eu.undernet.org, the DNS record of which in turn points to a variety of IP addresses. These IP addresses are of other UnderNet servers - however, several of them are inactive. Trondheim, below, is a good example where it actually referenced another server which gave another round-robin DNS. The idea is arguably a good one.. when a node leaves the network, people using its name in their connection settings should automatically be connected to a different server and they can chat on IRC as usual while at the same time spreading the connections of users who used to use that server to multiple other servers. Where it falls apart is when that redirect is to other non-existent nodes and the user is left none the wiser as to why sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Hence the 'arguably' as I would argue that it would be better for the hostname to be dropped entirely so that the user can take appropriate action (selecting an active server as their new default).
Note that none of these servers are listed in the alternative and up-to-date servers list.

[08@21:29:25] * Dns resolving trondheim.no.eu.undernet.org
[08@21:29:25] * Dns resolved trondheim.no.eu.undernet.org to 195.18.164.194
[08@21:29:28] * Dns resolving 195.18.164.194
[08@21:29:28] * Dns resolved 195.18.164.194 to oslo.no.eu.undernet.org
[08@21:29:32] * Dns resolving oslo.no.eu.undernet.org
[08@21:29:32] * Dns resolved oslo.no.eu.undernet.org to 194.109.20.90
[08@21:29:35] * Dns resolving 194.109.20.90
[08@21:29:35] * Dns resolved 194.109.20.90 to undernet.xs4all.nl
[08@21:29:40] * Dns resolving undernet.xs4all.nl
[08@21:29:40] * Dns resolved undernet.xs4all.nl to 194.109.20.90
[08@21:29:43] * Dns resolving 194.109.20.90
[08@21:29:43] * Dns resolved 194.109.20.90 to undernet.xs4all.nl
[08@21:29:55] * Dns resolving oslo.no.eu.undernet.org
[08@21:29:55] * Dns resolved oslo.no.eu.undernet.org to 194.109.20.90
[08@21:31:06] * Dns resolving oslo.no.eu.undernet.org
[08@21:31:06] * Dns resolved oslo.no.eu.undernet.org to 195.47.220.2
[08@21:31:16] * Dns resolved 195.47.220.2 to dana.basefreak.nl
[08@21:31:19] * Dns resolving dana.basefreak.nl
[08@21:31:19] * Dns resolved dana.basefreak.nl to 195.47.220.2


3) mentioned in: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11677
4) mentioned in: viewtopic.php?p=37107#p37107
5) I'm not sure how valid the servers that have DNS records that resolve to themselves are. neither work, regardless.

==================================================

But even when you can connect, the channels are all smaller (symptom of people migrating to facebook/MSN/Skype/whathaveyou?), bots appear to run amuck (see other threads on forum), the main parts of the website aren't being updated (also see other threads on forum), channel modes (+r, +D) to help deal with bots / ban evaders being illogical in their effect, etc. and in general I'm seeing a lot of people saying that they remembered IRC being a far more fun place.. then again, maybe they're just getting old ;)

Regardless... UnderNet does appear to be 'dying' since 20009 ( http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/details ... menu=years ) I'd say IRC in general appears to be dying but this isn't true for more specialty servers.. e.g. quakenet is still highly popular for gamers and several games offer a built-in chat functionality that is essentially an IRC client hardcoded to connect to that network.

That said.. I'm not blaming anybody.. things are what they are and I know several people participating in the forums are trying hard to make the best of the situation.. but in the end, perhaps IRC in the form of UnderNet, DalNet, EFNet, etc. is just something that is naturally downscaling in favor of other, more rich, media.. and there's really very little that network/server operators can do about that.


* Edited by Eenie to change size of a portion of the post to make it readable.


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 Post subject: Re: Undernet dead?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:30 pm
Posts: 1
I got the same problem and still can't figure it out. It said unable to connect. Maybe its just because the connection problem. I don't know yet.


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