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 Post subject: [General] G-lines regarding advertising.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:44 am
Posts: 76
i have a problem. over the past few weeks me and my friends got glined for advertising on channels with the following reason:

SpamBot. This IP has been involved in spamming which is not tolerated on undernet. Please read /MOTD if you choose to reconnect.

i know inviting on channels is not a polite thing but i dont know why is it considered spamming. invitation messages on big channels are the most efficient way of developing channel prosperity and now undernet discourages that. if they dont want us to do that they should just ban us from those channels. and i would like to remind that while we "spammers" who only want to develop our channels and attract new members get glines, there are many botnets and flooders that constitute a real threat to the network and dont get glined at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:39 pm 
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Hi Keops,

Why don't you read the /motd ?

Quote:
Some house rules include:
- Do not spam
- Do not flood
- Do not clone
- Do not harass others in any way


So, spamming is against the rules. And you have misunderstood something, it's not about being polite or not polite, it's about abusing and breaking the server rules. You are saying that "invitation messages on big channels are the most efficient way of developing channel prosperity". And you complain why you are glined ? If anyone has a problem here that's Undernet and the channels being spammed, and not you. You are the problem.

Well, please keep the flames or connect to another Network where they will allow you to spam your channel.


Best Regards,
Mit.



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:28 pm
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Keops, you and your friends should also check whether you are infected, maybe you didn't get glined because of spamming a channel, but because of spreading a virus.
And if you do see botnets/flooders as you said, please do email someone about it, or report it to a channel that corresponds to infections. We don't have #help and antivirus channels( #nohack #vh #dmsetup ) for nothing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:44 am
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but this is not spamming. it's channel inviting. ppl have been doing this for years and now we start being glined :( i dont understand why opers interfere since these are channel matters and not server/network matters.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:54 pm 
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Excuse me but, in English it is called spamming and it is an abuse. I don't see the point of discussing this anymore.



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:55 pm
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Advertising a channel (or almost anything unsolicited) in another channel is generally considered spamming. Even the law says so. (Take a good look at the CAN-SPAM act of 2003, for example.) But if the (best) response for such a gesture is the G-line, well... that's at least questionnable, if not an abuse itself. Punishment - if necessary - should be given in a directly proportionate manner to the extent of abuse, and not vice versa.

Actually, not the rules are the problem here, but the enforcement thereof. That's what I wrote in another thread, too: while the simple user has to endure any abuse (because there is not really much even an ircop can do about a professional flooder, is there?), if ircops feel "harassed in any way", they will simply G-line that IP and that's the end of story.

Not quite fair, but... hey, Keops, "smile! tomorrow will be worse!" :)


P.S. It is quite a pity that the only environment truly able to put in force the core idea of democracy is nothing more - if you scratch a bit on it's surface - than an ordinary feudalism.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:45 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:44 am
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oh yeah? if they gline advertisers why dont they do also for people swearing in channels. that would be considered harassment of users.

btw. the server which i connect to (bucharest.ro.*) says nothing about advertising at all in motd. it does say however that flooding/cloning is prohibited but i see no action taken in this matter

how r we suposed to grow our channel if not by calling from bigger channels. all the friends i have were met through this method.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:06 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:28 pm
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Keops wrote:
but this is not spamming. it's channel inviting.


MASS INVITING = SPAMMING
There is a difference between setting up a bot to invite on autojoin and to invite a couple of persons manually :) If you don't dig it, just live with it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:00 am 
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Keops wrote:
but this is not spamming. it's channel inviting. ppl have been doing this for years and now we start being glined :( i dont understand why opers interfere since these are channel matters and not server/network matters.


Incorrect, Undernet has been g-lining thing kind of behaviour for more than 10 years.

Most channels do kick and ban such users as well, it simply is not polite, there is only one way that inviting people to a channel is polite, and thats when you know the person you are inviting and they know you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:02 pm 
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Undernet does not tolerate spam or any other kind of abuse. Large channels do not tolerate this as well. Just think about it, Keops... If you own a large channel, would you tolerate people that will come and flood your channel with invite messages? I think not. :roll:



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:44 am
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Quote:
Just think about it, Keops... If you own a large channel, would you tolerate people that will come and flood your channel with invite messages? I think not.


flooding with bots/clones... NO! but a simple inviting... that's something i can allow :) this measure against inviting is way too severe imo. advertising has existed since the creation of the internet. if you dont want it, you can just ban/ignore that person from the channel but not from the entire network since there is no real harm done in advertising stuff from within the network (i.e.: channels)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:50 pm 
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I am wondering if you will ever get it, Keops. You are breaking the channel rules, the server rules, the network-wide rules and the Undernet AUP, and over that you are complaning. You don't understand it, do you ? Why don't you read the channel rules, the server /motd and the Undernet AUP before you start thinking about posting in this thread again ?

Hopefully,
Mit.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:16 pm
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Location: Romania
you say:

Quote:
btw. the server which i connect to (bucharest.ro.*) says nothing about advertising at all in motd. it does say however that flooding/cloning is prohibited but i see no action taken in this matter


i am using bucharest server to.
the answer:

Quote:

- Nu permitem abuzurile, clone si/sau flood-uri. Botii abuzivi
- NU sunt tolerati. Nerespectarea regulilor duce la instalarea
- unui kline, iar in cazurile grave vom contacta ISP-ul tau.
- IP-urile folosite pentru rularea botilor vor fi private de
- acces la acest server fara instiintare prealabila.
-
-
- Prin conectarea la acest server, esti de acord cu politica
- de folosire a serviciului si regulile retelei. Documentul
- poate fi citit pe web la adresa
- http://www.undernet.org/user-com/documents/aup.html


what say exact to :
http://www.undernet.org/user-com/documents/aup.html ?

Quote:
iii) Unsolicited advertising to Undernet users is not allowed;


mass invite or onjoin invite what is exact?
did you ask the user? did you talk with him? NO
JUST INVITE

like http://www.blabla.com like http://blabla.net and other things.

the same thinks doing and the spambots: "Unsolicited advertising" but for other reasons.

do you want to brink ppl to your room? TALK WITH THEM FIRST AND PLEASE TO JOIN YOUR ROOM.
ONLY LIKE THAT YOU WILL HAVE A REALY ROOM AND NOT FAKE ROOM.

or...........YOU CAN CONNECT 200 BNC`S TO JOIN YOUR ROOM AND YOU WILL HAVE THE BIGGEST FAKE ROOM!!!!!!

P.S.you have to know that many ppl have settings join on invite enable and that is really harass.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:44 am
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Quote:
do you want to brink ppl to your room? TALK WITH THEM FIRST AND PLEASE TO JOIN YOUR ROOM.
ONLY LIKE THAT YOU WILL HAVE A REALY ROOM AND NOT FAKE ROOM.


and how you sugest i do that? i enter a channel, look at the nick list, start from the top and ask everyone - hello, would you like to join my chan pls? i really want to grow it big and have lots of ppl on it. NO! this will not work! thats why im saying inviting is the only solution for channel growth & development and these rules against inviting are useless and abusive! undernet should encourage this kind of attitude since this will increase ppl's trafic on the network. and thats why the forum is, to post opinions about things such as network regulations.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm 
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Keops said:
Quote:
thats why im saying inviting is the only solution for channel growth & development and these rules against inviting are useless and abusive!


Keops, I suggest you ask your friends to join your channel, then create a great topic, (where people will see it in a /list), then pay attention to the channel, maintaining it well, treating people with respect and having fun in the channel, then people will find your channel, come in and participate and become part of it. That is how channels grow! If none of the above happen, then perhaps there is no need for your channel and therefore it should not even exist.

This is the way channels become popular, NOT by invites or other spam.

Eenie ;-)


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