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 Post subject: CService site, continued
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 10:47 pm
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Even that xplora no longer sees the point of this thread, I still did not receive a satisfactory answer to the main question of the thread:

Who deals with problems related to the CService website?

And at this time I would like to make an official complaint against xplora continuously locking threads whenever he sees fit, preventing people from receiving answers and help on this section. If he has a problem with seeing the point of threads, following questions and waiting until the person seeking help declares himself/herself satisfied with the answers received, perhaps he should pursue other interests and activities that do not involve responsibilities as forum moderator.

I invite everyone agreeing to this complaint to support my initiative. Should this thread be locked again, we can move the debate on another web location, not under the control/censorship of CService.



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:28 am 
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I also feel the same frustration that puterfixer has expressed about topics getting locked in this forum, where ideas and discussion are supposed to be encouraged. A forum is a facility for holding discussions, it is not meant to be a "quick, answer the question and lock the topic" interchange. (That's what the IRC channels on Undernet are for.) Unfortunately, I see it going in this direction when it comes to the Channel Service section.

I also asked the same question that puterfixer is asking here, and I did not receive a satisfactory reply, yet the topic was locked with the comment
Quote:
I no longer see the point of this thread, topic locked.


As puterfixer eloquently asked of the moderators in that locked topic:
Quote:
About topic locking: perhaps it is only your opinion that the question has been properly answered. From the other side of the table, I see a lot of frustration with incomplete or completely off-topic answers which do not, in fact, fully answer or solve the original problem. Let the person who asked the question decide when they are satisfied with the answer, don't shut them up when you think your job is done.


This approach would make the forum much more user-friendly and in my opinion, actually allow the poster to get answered adequately, instead of being disrespectfully shut out of the discussion.

An interesting note, under the "help" section of the undernet forum:
the Channel service section has 96 topics, 87 of which are locked (90.62% LOCKED)
the General/IRC Help section has 251 topics, 43 of which are locked (17.13% LOCKED)
the Undernet coder committee section has 199 topics, of 18 which are locked (9.04% LOCKED)

So, PLEASE, do not lock topics when you are tired of it, see no point in continuing, etc., but lock it when you are sure the poster believes he has been answered fairly and thoroughly and when you think there is really no more for the users to discuss.

Eenie



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:17 am 
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very well said.... I strongly agreed the above posts...


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 Post subject: Re: CService site, continued
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:00 am 
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puterfixer wrote:
Who deals with problems related to the CService website?


There's a special team that handles updating the CService website and the CService Documents - The Documents team.
I won't give out names for the moment. I can only say me and Kidnapper run that team.

As we speak a new update is already being reviewed, and yes, the 24 hour lock on failed login attempts thingie was included.

Hope this answer is satisfactory.



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:33 pm 

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Thanks for the reply, Etherfast :) As I understand, the Documents team is involved in managing the contents of the CService site. I'm looking forward to the new documents to show up instead of that "latest news" from 1999, IIRC.

But, what if the CService site has some functional problems, if a user encounters an error - either a bug or a situation which he or she doesn't know how to handle? Whom should that person address the question to? It wouldn't be related to the contents, but the functionality. Is there a dedicated channel for it? An e-mail address to write to? A group of people taking the issues and passing them to the coders?



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:41 pm 
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The coders are the right ppl to go to directly, coz they handle the technical/functinal part of the website. Or one could post the error in here too, and a coder would answer..

Wolfyx



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:03 pm 
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Thanks for the answers so far, folks. But I remain a bit confused. My question some topics ago was and remains:
What channel do we send people to when they have questions related to the website?

For instance:
1. I got the "too many failed login attempts for this username" on the website, how long must I wait until I can log in again? Note: this is a website question, NOT a username question.
2. I keep getting this message when I click on Complaints: "The complaints system is temporarily disabled, please lodge a complaint if that is not OK with you." When will this be working again?
3. How come when I click on Channel Information for #CService, I do not get a list of the ops there, and instead get, "Sorry, you can't view details of that channel."?
4. Why do some channels get to hide their details? What if I want to hide mine, who do I talk to?

Questions like these. Questions related to #CService website. I am not talking about mechanical problems people might be experiencing while trying to connect to the site. What channel is the appropriate channel to ask these questions in? THAT, is my question.

Eenie



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:15 pm 
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1. Now that it;s been updated and will soon be posted, we can send them to view the info on the website, or we can answer them in cservice, as we often do
2. The complaints system has been locked for ages now, and i don't think they'll be reoppened soon. The fact is that we now handle 'complaints' in specific e-mailing lists, for example complaints about abusing managers, floods/bots/mp3/trading and such (all on registered channels) go to cservice-abuse@undernet.org. So basically each type of complaint goes to an e-mailing list depending on the nature.
3. I can't give you a reason why it's been tagged as special..but that's why you can't view the info anymore, on the website atleast.
4. *shrugh*

And you could have found an answer to all these questions in cs, atleast i know i have answered users that asked the above IN cs

Wolfyx



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:23 pm 
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Thanks wolfyx, but please note I was not asking those 4 questions, I was just giving examples of what kinds of questions I was referring to.

And this whole thing arose when I asked #1 in #CService and was told by an op there to go ask in #usernames.

So now I know, #CService is the place to go and to send people to when there are CService website-related questions to be answered.

And shame on that op for sending me to #usernames!

Also, I'd like to point out that it took several answers here until I actually got the answer for the question I was asking. I am glad the topic was not locked as soon as the first answer (which did NOT the answer my specific question) was given. Thanks for that.

Thanks again,
Eenie


Last edited by Eenie on Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:30 pm 
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CService@undernet.org can offer explanation for ~99% of the things related to CService (channels, website, usernames, and so on).

We're trying to figure out a way to let users know that every such request can be directed to that e-mail address.
Perhaps posting such a message on the website.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:09 pm 
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Quote:
As far as passing between channels goes, what you are suggesting is that we start handling generic help and coding and oper help yet none of these service we are capable of providing.

We have chosen to make the split at Username RELATED, not Username SPECIFIC. therefore in some issues such as this one #CService will pass onto #usernames.

If the split was Username SPECIFIC, then yes #CService would/should have answered it, since the problem was only username related.


The topic was already answered, Please read the answers given, or use the search feature.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:36 pm 
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Hey,

Indeed, I run a team of knowledgeable and dedicated people. You will notice the changes very soon. Such as: Special announcements being updated, Email.txts being rewritten in a more comprehensible way, xcmds being checked for not-used-anymore X commands and grammar mistakes, channel registration AUP etc. We work together and we use a private channel which cannot be given out.

On the other side, as an official answer, the complaints system will never be up again, as I was told. Reason: there were way too many requests that we couldn't handle. There were only a few officials in charge. We now work through mailing lists and I personally like the idea.

Last, as most of you know, #cservice technically is a special channel, that's why you can't view its information anymore (on the website). I'm afraid I can't comment further.

I'd also like to thank you puterfixer and Eenie for the heads up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:01 am 
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Eenie wrote:
Thanks for the answers so far, folks. But I remain a bit confused. My question some topics ago was and remains:
What channel do we send people to when they have questions related to the website?

For instance:
1. I got the "too many failed login attempts for this username" on the website, how long must I wait until I can log in again? Note: this is a website question, NOT a username question.
2. I keep getting this message when I click on Complaints: "The complaints system is temporarily disabled, please lodge a complaint if that is not OK with you." When will this be working again?
3. How come when I click on Channel Information for #CService, I do not get a list of the ops there, and instead get, "Sorry, you can't view details of that channel."?
4. Why do some channels get to hide their details? What if I want to hide mine, who do I talk to?


Thought I'd take a moment and answer all 5 questions. (yes I know only 1 was really asked)

(if you are wondering, the first question is answered by the channel name after the question number)

1. #usernames - 24 hours (as I understand it)
2. #cservice - not returning, never enough staff to manage a system that gets abused anyway
3. #cservice - SPECIAL tag, only available for Official Undernet Channels, their managers already know how to request this.
4. #cservice - see #3

Note: Anything username related goes to #usenrames, everything else on the website goes to #cservice. The error in question 1 is both website specific and username related, therefore #usernames is the correct place to ask about it.



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