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HISTORY ... options/methods
Poll ended at Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:42 pm
 WEB only  14%  14%  [ 18 ]
 IRC only  2%  2%  [ 2 ]
 Both  15%  15%  [ 19 ]
 490+  7%  7%  [ 9 ]
 495+  7%  7%  [ 9 ]
 500 only  16%  16%  [ 21 ]
 Last 5  3%  3%  [ 4 ]
 Last 10  11%  11%  [ 14 ]
 1 Week  5%  5%  [ 7 ]
 2 Weeks  20%  20%  [ 26 ]
Total votes : 129

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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:25 am 
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Dooku wrote:

Quote:
Be honest and tell me which ones of these 2 you see more frequently in the #CService, MIA situations or temp manager changes ? and lets not forget that most of them are rejected....
Lets put away the old rules and bureaucracy for a minute now and think clearly ...


Seeing more MIA doesen't mean the system has flaws in it but managers not having read/fully understood the Registration Acceptable Use Policy.
Second, they're not rejected but eventually purged, only channel registration applications can be rejected. CService's main purpose is not to purge channels but to do it's best and keep them registered. However, as one clooful admin put it: We won't hesitate to empty the dustbin, if needed.
Don't give me "let's put away the old rules and bureaucracy" because exactly these "old" rules have kept this network one of the best. As for bureaucracy I can't really imagine what you mean by that in our case.

Quote:
Think about it.... we are not doing this for those that have more then 10 years experience on IRC, I think most of those ones know already the undernet and add trustful admins to their teams


In case you haven't noticed, most of these channels have more than 7 499 on them so it doesen't apply. Also you should know better that X on your channel is not a MUST. Registration should be a tool for the experienced and more seasoned users who already have stable UNregistered channels and which want to benefit from CService's X priviledge on their channel (for extra security and control).
I really wouldn't like anyone else on my channel to see these actions because it's my channel first of all.

Quote:
We should do constructive things that help the new comers to understand X commands...

We are, we have #CService with it's volunteers ready to assist all the guests, we have the X commands on the website and we're holding #opschool classes for each segment of these X commands weekly.
Again, there is a time limit that should be passed in order to be able to apply for a channel (10 days). This because new users that register an username are supposed not to be experienced regarding on how to register a channel or administer it. Lately all believe that X is a must for a channel, which is not true at all. (thusly many channels end up suspended for abuse or absent managers).

Revival wrote :
Quote:
As dooku pointed out a fact above; in cservice we always suggesting people to appoint a temp manager after they faced to MIA, they were didnt know or forgot to do, no matter, we should consider the all possiblity. A channel management shouldn't wait manager's return to issue this command as it will be very late.


Not true, we don't advise them the temporary manager change only *after* MIA occurs. If I'm not mistaken it's stipulated in the AUP, which they sign as having read and understood before they proceed with their application.
Also imho applying for a channel means you have asked a bit on how this works and what new features apply for a manager (500). This includes purge forms or manager changes.

Quote:
I didn't ask what will happen if manager failed to login for more than 21+ days, this is another topic. I said managers are allowed to be away almost 21 days in this case manager will come back in during this period but will not receive the wanted logs as it's usage period will be expired after 14 days, and why channel management should wait for manager's return?


Is it just me or you're contradicting yourself over and over again ? You've been mentioning the absence aspect throughout your last posts, claiming this is why other channel admins should be able to access the history log.

Dooku wrote
Quote:
A channel can NOT be managed only by one person and since when u ban a user it shows your username next to the reason I don't see why should not other admins be able to see those things that happened less then 14 days ago


That's true, however there is ONLY ONE person taking the ultimate decisions on HIS/HER channel, thusly that person should be entitled in my opinion to know all history and decide who to add/remove basing his/her actions on that history.

As a final remark: as most channels have more than one 499 (level that we consider as a co-manager) it wouldn't be quite wise to grant them access to this history. As spidel marked, it's up to the channel manager which persons he appoints as his trustworthy admins or co-manager, thusly it would be his/her responsability to be present often in channel politics and see the actions of all his appointed ops/admins.

Regards

Panzer



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:17 pm 
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I was not talking about purged channels, I was talking about rejected temp mgr change requests.



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 Post subject: Re: Auto INVITE
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Dooku wrote:
I understand but even if those logs would be seen only by officials I don't want it, lets think about the risks as well, we all know that even the officials are not entirely safe since CService had some leeks in the past and this didn't happened once ... :-?


And it will happen again it's just a question of when. There always be leakers within such a large committee but we try to minimize it as much as we can. I just hope it will never happen again cause we have to respect our users privacy otherwise we wouldn't exist without them. Privacy is our motto and that's the way it should remain. :thumbsup:

Quote:
If they want they can help you using their privileges there is no need for anyone to see what I'm typing... or what I'm checking or what ever I'm doing, I don't think it will be fully objective.


I'm sorry but i didn't understand anything. If you're saying history of an username account to be viewable by the owner of it wouldn't be such a great idea, then i must agree with you ;)



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:26 pm 
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Spidel wrote:
Quote:
In case you didn't know which i'm sure you haven't. Basically HISTORY feature It's to monitor the ops actions; as for the channel itself, you operate it as you are the channel manager and you're fully responsable for ops actions. You have to know what the operators are doing in your channel otherwise you might end up getting your channel suspended because they somehow abused the system.

Quote:
Dont act like I am newbie, I know this random answers given to guests in cservice already.


I don't know whether you are or not, but sometimes i hardly understand you. :(


No need to play with the words like tetris and stating your recognition status actually indicates your arrogance here. Besides it, You still can not justify any valuable fact that will worth to read and got the addiction of copying quotes from AUP. Taking subject onto another dimension, then claiming I dont know, must be your last weapon of debating strategy.

Let's cut the talk about the manager's responsiblities, Nothing is happens as stated on AUP. AUP says ''If you know you going be away for more than 3 weeks'' But it is obvious 90% of them didnt know when they will be away or forgetting is always happens, don't say it's their problem, Nah it's our problem, all of us.. You're equal with them.. We here debating on a new feature to make it be more useful than realised. If we should consider the each line of AUP then CSC shouldn't open this topic to debate.

For example: We company workers, tired of thiefs.. AND want's to get a hidden camere to record our company, but those recorded videos will be removed on every 14 days. and another one company owner says let ONLY company managers be able to check this video records, But our manager just coming biweekly and we can't check what is stolen in our company in during this period.
And it will be very late if we awaiting manager's return as it's usage period will be expired after 14 days. This guy which is own another company wants ONLY managers be able to check those recorded logs because he sits back in company 7\24.
But our manager wont stay in company so much, he might have a wife, family, kids, life to deal with. What about to let their Co-administrators to check those recorded videos regulary and resolve any issue happent, As they're able to get new persons in company or kick out them, so admins are responsible of their decisions too, so then let them watch their acts, if someone of them may lead any trouble his admin should check it by himself then give out the necessary action as fast as possible, Keep that in your mind ''TIME IS MOST IMPORTANT THING COMING WITH THIS FEATURE''
If there is something stolen in the company and everyone suspecting from eachothers then someone should be able to check out the video records then kick out this person, otherwise this chaos will continue till manager's return and manager will not receive those videos as it's usage period may expired till his return.

End of the story, I have nothing to add more.. The final decision is yours CSC.

Best Regards/RevivaL



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:49 pm 
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you're talking non-sense. It's your channel, it's your responsabillity without any IF's or BUT's. Managers are supposed to be constantly active on their channel but you keep saying what if they fail to login or if they are away for more than 21 days, then he's not worth to be the manager of the channel, period. Or if managers can't assume their responsabillity of the channel, they should give it away to somebody who can run it accordingly at the higher standards that a registered channel can run.

You're posting meaningless things which doesn't make any sense at all also not to forget to mention you have always contradicting yourself. Get a grip and stop insulting me cause i have never done it. And i surely don't like your attitude and i highly recommend you to read this http://www.undernet.org/forumaup.php point number 3.

You deserve to be warned by one of the moderators.

P.S : On a job, you can't miss work unannounced cause somebody higher than you will get you fired and not your co-workers will get their head off, it's YOU; So as in undernet. If you have a registered channel on your username and you're missing unannounced in this case the channel will be given away to 400 level ops or higher to run it or it will be simply purged if it's inactive. And again i have proven you that your arguments aren't solid at all. Good luck on giving me another example so i can actually agree with you cause so far, i disagreed.



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:56 pm 
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Spidel, If you keep looking forward to find out a mistake in my each posts, if you're insisting to find out it, then you will find :) You taking the things very serious, dont forget it is just an IRC beyond all. You can't find every fact written on the AUPS. If moderators thoughts same with you then I apologise if I wrote something insulted you. But they also should consider your attitude againts me too, coz this is not first topic you insistly trying to spank me and letting me down :) let's look at the forum AUP together, you will find out yourself in each numbers of it too. Don't forget you're also representing a committee be more calm down and dont get out of your line so easily.

Regards/RevivaL



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:29 pm 
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This is deviating heavily offtopic. Revival no need for insulting other posters, everybody is entitled to an opinion (as long as they bring their arguments along) and as I and others have pointed out you're contradicting yourself post after post.

Also claiming "let's drop the rules and AUP" is totally nonsense and doesen't belong in a debate over a feature to be implemented.

Unless you bring solid arguments without personal affronts it's better not to keep overfilling this debate.



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:27 am 
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Panzer wrote:
This is deviating heavily offtopic. Revival no need for insulting other posters, everybody is entitled to an opinion (as long as they bring their arguments along) and as I and others have pointed out you're contradicting yourself post after post.

Also claiming "let's drop the rules and AUP" is totally nonsense and doesen't belong in a debate over a feature to be implemented.

Unless you bring solid arguments without personal affronts it's better not to keep overfilling this debate.


I can see this friendly corporation trying to defend your fellow worker would be appreciated but topic already closed and I apologised for any inconvenience my phrases may caused, acting like an forum moderator and telling me what to do or not is couldnt be part of your bussiness.

It is you who pointed out Im contradicting myself post after post, tell me where I did it? If you're hiding back to MrEenie's post, It is his fault to taking me wrong. I'll repeat my opinion shortly again; If you want ONLY manager be able to perform that command, then it's log recording duration must be at least 3 weeks equal to manager's allowed absent duration. But I would like to see 450+ level requirement then 1 weekly log record must be enough, coz 450+ admins will issue this command regulary so no need to recording the logs more than 1 week. I didnt ask for break the AUP, I just were disagree to compare it with this feature needlessly.

What is next?



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:09 am 
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I'd rather suggest to be on topic rather than off topic. That's the reason why i preffered NOT to reply to something which isn't on topic cause it will only cause flames which is against forum AUP.

I hope xplora will delete the last three posts after he gets back from work as they are really unnecessarily and not helping at all, including this one.

Thank you.



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:47 am 
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Good ideea and a very useful feature :D

Regards,
BeBeLuShuL



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:27 am 
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Any news on the outcome of this measure being implemented ?



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:53 am 
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I guess when the poll will end which is in 12th august :thumbsup:



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:28 pm 
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What seems to be pretty clear so far is that the majority of users consider only the 500 to get this info and the duration of 2 weeks should be the one the info lasts.

What still remain tied are the modality (irc, web or both). Website would be best imo given into account the usage of the KISS we consider as first option. X results are restricted to 15 and it redirects to the website after this limit is exceeded.



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:04 am 
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Panzer wrote:
What seems to be pretty clear so far is that the majority of users consider only the 500 to get this info and the duration of 2 weeks should be the one the info lasts.

What still remain tied are the modality (irc, web or both). Website would be best imo given into account the usage of the KISS we consider as first option. X results are restricted to 15 and it redirects to the website after this limit is exceeded.


It would be nice for X to redirect to the website when the limit is exceeded. But it doesn't redirect me. Here is what happens to me:

Quote:
[23:03] -X- There are more than 15 matching entries.

[23:03] -X- Please restrict your query.


Just sayin'.

~Eenie



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 Post subject: Re: HISTORY or Manager/Admin Log
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:38 am 
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Correct Eenie, redirecting not via a notice but implicit to the website to visualize the whole list (access levels, number of bans for instance). The same would apply I presume for the results of the history log, making necessary the access on the website.



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